Last month we brought the news that BMOrg had cut out early from their half-million dollar annual contract with Humboldt General Hospital. Now we know why: they have ditched the local medical facility for CrowdRX, who specialize in providing medical services to festivals like Coachella and Bonnaroo.
From the Reno Gazette-Journal, Burning Man Chooses New Medical Provider, BLM Concerned:
Burning Man has chosen a new, out-of-state medical support services provider to care for patients after considering the public health and safety concerns expressed by the Bureau of Land Management following last year’s Burn.
While glad to see that Burning Man is taking the initiative to make changes to address the BLM’s concerns, the concerns are not gone.
“I’m somewhat apprehensive with a new medical provider coming on with only four months before implementation,” said Gene Seidlitz, district manager for the BLM office based out of Winnemucca.
It’s a big deal that the BLM are apprehensive, because with just a few months to go until the start of the event, the Special Recreation Permit has still not been approved. It’s on Seidlitz’ desk, but he’s not signing…yet.
The BLM will not issue a special recreation permit to Burning Man until all concerns pertaining to public health and safety are addressed within the contract with CrowdRx, the new provider, Seidlitz said.
Burning Man has some time, as the permit is usually issued in June, according to Seidlitz.
“They have a permit in front of me, but it’s unsigned,” he said.
The BLM report addressing public health and safety during the 2014 Burning Man was not immediately available Wednesday for review. Seidlitz said it covered issues like the poor portable toilet sanitation and the lack of communication between Burning Man’s own emergency support staff and staff employed by the medical support services provider
No big deal, at least BMOrg have locked in the new provider…right? Wrong.
On Wednesday, Burning Man announced that it reached an agreement with CrowdRx, but no contract is in place since all of the “numbers” still have to be figured out, according to Burning Man spokesman Jim Graham. Officials have not revealed the contract amount or if it will be a one-year or multi-year contract.
What do they need to do to figure this out? Haven’t they been doing it for 30 years? What happens if they can’t negotiate a fair contract (something BMOrg are not exactly renowned for)?
Humboldt General Hospital spokesman Pat Songer said that while the hospital won’t suffer financially from the loss of the contract, it is a disappointing blow to the local community.
“It’s disappointing that Burning Man chose to work with an out-of-state company that’s unlicensed in Nevada. It’s disappointing for the state of Nevada,” Songer said. “They’re not licensed to provide ambulance services, they’re not licensed as a hospital in Nevada.”
BM CEO Marian Goodell is not concerned.
CrowdRx currently serves nearly 20,000 events nationwide, including a variety of musical festivals such as Coachella and Bonnaroo. Other clients include major athletic events, including the U.S. Open and various all-star major league events.
“CrowdRx has an excellent reputation for providing medical support for large public events across the country,” said Burning Man CEO Marian Goodell. “We’re looking forward to working with them now and into the future as Burning Man evolves and grows.”
Large public events across the country, huh? Is that where Burning Man is evolving and growing to?
Last year more than 4500 emergency calls were processed and over 6100 patients were treated medically, almost 10% of the total population. Black Rock City may have less crime than other places, but it sure seems to have more injuries and accidents. Most of the treatment was for dehydration, scrapes and cuts, or intoxication/overdose.
CrowdRX do not have any ambulance facilities in the area, and HGH won’t be making theirs available to the rival that cut their lunch. It doesn’t sound like CrowdRX have been to Burning Man, or really know much about what’s in store for them.
Burning Man will be a different animal for CrowdRx.
“Nevada is a new venture for us. We will look and see what we need,” [CrowdRX’s new president Carl] Monzo said.
The most rural environment the company had worked in its 23 years of experience was a Phish concert held in a rural part of New England in the 1990s, he said.
“When we’re dealing with something like Burning Man, I think we need to double and triple check because it’s not like there’s resources around the corner,” Monzo said. Black Rock City is located about two hours north of Reno in the Black Rock Desert.
It is possible that CrowdRx will reach out to local ambulance and hospital entities for collaboration, according to Monzo. Humboldt General Hospital is not interested in working with CrowdRx, according to Songer, the hospital’s spokesman
So they haven’t even looked to see what they need yet, let alone negotiated a contract – either for a year or multiple years? And they’re just assuming it will be no problem for them to collaborate with the local resources that they just screwed out of a contract? This does not sound very positive.
EMS1 has further details:
“Burning Man is a premier event with an outstanding level of service to its participants,” said CrowdRx President Carl Monzo. “We have decades of experience in live event medical care at large gatherings around the country and are excited to bring those skills to Burning Man.”
BMOrg spokesman Jim Graham is characteristically upbeat:
CrowdRx will be providing essentially the same services that Humboldt General Hospital did, though perhaps on a larger scale. Basic first aid will be available in more locations, according to Graham, and a central clinic will provide for more serious needs, such as broken bones, detoxication and dehydration…While Burning Man would like to make it as viable as possible for participants to stay on the playa while being treated, Graham said critical injuries will be treated at the nearest hospital to the playa: Renown Regional Medical Center in Reno. [Source]
What has triggered this? There was a rumor last year that EPA had to be called to the site due to a biohazard problem that was so serious they were considering shutting the event down. I have not been able to substantiate that rumor, perhaps someone else can…or suggest another reason why BMOrg would ditch a local service provider who by all accounts has provided excellent service for the last four years.
In the comments at RGJ, RT insists there were no problems on the turf of “Poopervisor” Robbi Dobbs:
RT: Why on earth would they say that the porta potti service was anything other than exceptional? The trucks come by and powerwash them. They service each of the units 4 times a day. There are well over 1,000 units and they are overseen by the very efficient staff and volunteers on potti patrol. (Led by Robbi Dobbs the Poopervisor), Nearby camps, (Potti friends), stock the paper as needed and zip-tie the ones with accidents inside. Our camp, Sporks Are For Pussys, vowed to keep them clean and stocked but the USS crew did such an excellent job that we barely got a chance to do anything extra. Why was that in their article on medical services anyway?
Is this about health and safety concerns? Politics? Trying to maximize how far their tax-exempt dollars go? Or part of the strategic vision of Burning Man’s expansion over the next century?
From Reddit, we get some speculation about the case “for” the switch:
Based on some experiences in 2014 and in talking with a number of friends and acquaintances:
Yellow Shirts, Medical staff at 3:00 & 9:00 = awesome!
Blue shirts, Humboldt = awful!
I speculate this was so because Yellow shirts are Burners, are passionate volunteers, and are experienced medical professionals in the default world. While blue shirts are paid individuals just going through another day at the office. I’m optimistic that CrowdRX will do a good job due to their festival experience – they might just ‘get’ Burning Man. Good-bye and good riddance to shitty Humboldt.
…the RGJ is pretty clueless on this one too. CrowdRX is basically providing stuff, but a lot of the very same people are going to be there anyway. HGH hired from all over the place, this isn’t going to be any different. In fact it might be better.. There were a lot of first timers that HGH had hired that were there for the money only. As in, had no ties to anything burner whatsoever, never been to the event, etc. were only there for one shift and that’s it. Rumor is that crowdrx is wanting to help hire on many of the ESD folks for a few shifts. So, in a sense, CrowdRX would be providing a WAY better service by bringing on veteran burners instead of putting an ad on Facebook/JEMS (HGH did this!) and hiring random people.
Burner Claire Gilles has been the lead nurse at Burning Man with HGH for the last several years. She has raised her concerns with the BLM, and encourages the rest of us to do the same:
To whom it may concern,
I am very concerned about the BM. Org choice of new medical management for Burning Man 2015. I am an emergency room RN in Reno and I have volunteered for the last several years with HGH at Burning man as their lead RN. This new medical Management company is and will not be prepared to treat the high volume of critical patients that this event produces on a daily bases. They are unable to provide critical care or acute cardiac and trauma life support , not do they possess the transport equipment or staff to transport these patients off of the playa . Which means they will be utilizing 40-50 percent of our local EMS . When our local EMS is out of service running extended time transports back and forth between the Event they are unable to provide care in our community and our community will suffer for it. Because Crowd RX is not able to care for critically ill patients they will be transporting off playa significantly more people, this will add additional strain to our ER ‘s and hospitals ( which are already at max capacity ). Burning man takes place during an extremely busy time for Reno and sparks , the Rib cook off and our annual motor cycle jamboree to name just two. HGH provided consistently excellent , swift and skilled care not only on site but also managed transports for the patients that needed to be moved to a higher level of care . HGH is able to provide Critical care management on site, and frequently able to even treat and discharge some of these patients back to their playa homes. The staff at ramparts even managed to make sure their discharged patients had follow up care while at the Burn. Because HGH is local and respected within Northern Nevada they had the ability to connect with critical care air services and local physicians outside of Black rock city. They even provided limited medications for patients on a daily bases while on playa . Due to their proximity to Gerlach , HGH was able to restock any supplies and medications daily and maintain consistent quality care and service. HGH is local and loved and understands not only the needs of black rock city but of the hospital systems in Reno and sparks and was able to provide excellent care without overwhelming our local ER’s and staff. I ask you as a native Nevadan , a long time Burner and a medical professional to restrict Crowd RX from providing care for this event. The residents of Black rock city and Reno, sparks, Fernely and Fallon deserve better…
I’d like to add one more item to ponder with regards to the new Medical management at Burning Man. Crowd RX is an out of state corporation. They are providing care at Burning man simply to make a profit. Do they care about the reputation of Nevada ? Our local economy thrives on tourism. Who better to provide care for tens of thousands of guests in our state than the people who live and take pride in Nevada. Why should we allow an outside agency with no experience and no ties to our community be paid to provide what will likely be poor care for the biggest annual revenue generating event in Northern Nevada? Keep Health care at the burn Local! Support HGH and tell BLM Nevadans should be taking care of our welcomed Guests !! Because we quite frankly do it better and we want them to return to their homes across the U.S. and the globe enthusiastic praise for this great state!
This is contact info the BLM who will be determining if Crowd RX meets the expectations needed for safe care during this event. Please email or call with your opinion!
Winnemucca District Office
5100 East Winnemucca Blvd.
Winnemucca, NV 89445
Phone: 775-623-1500
Fax: 775-623-1503
Email: wfoweb@blm.gov
Office hours: 7:30 am-4:30 pm, M-F
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At the least, we learn of the issue in regards of the change from Humbolt General Hospital towards CrowdRx. Within the manner I speculated of prior, it was in due of rubbish bureaucracy. HGH, perchance, in due of discussions with their BLM mates within the little town of Winnemucca, decided of they must prepare might a mass casualty incident occur, and thus, they were of the need for more ambulances, and other items on the playa, for the burn. The BMOrg stated no, this is most not acceptable to us, we will not pay cash in regards of this. HGH, perchance in due of discussions with their BLM mates, ‘exercised their 180 day right to cancel their contract’, of which, it was not the most brilliant decision. In due of this, the BMOrg decided to change to CrowdRx, an event contractor, in despite of HGH providing a most awesome hospital on the playa, for an appropriate cost, a plane, helicopters, and ambulances might more medical be required, and in despite of HGH being most important to the small towns of north Nevada.
The purpose of a bureaucracy is to expand to gain of all the cash, and of all the power, of which it might. The BMOrg paid $3.5 million to the BLM within 2013, and, at present, the number is bigger. The BLM hired, within the prior year, a Permit Manager, and a Project Manager, for the Burning Man event, and, it is required of each manager, within a bureaucracy, to hire people to manage, raising the costs of cash, in addendum of the costs of the numerous police agencies, whom have treated Burners in a most horrible manner, for the prior 20 years. The FBI, and Homeland Security, have, in addendum, discussed, with the BLM, in regards of the preparation for the burn in these regards.
The BMOrg ventured to Washington DC to begin discussions towards a permit for the 2017 burn, and discuss of these matters with the BLM ministers to gain adult supervision over the BLM police, and the BLM office within Winnemucca, purposed to lower their costs and be most professional in regards of their actions towards Burners, and, perchance, items, of which, are hidden from Burners.
Within the middle this row, are the awesome doctors, nurses, and other people whom provided the most awesome medical care on the playa, towards whom we owe much gratitude, in addendum of the people of north Nevada, whom support their HGH mates. In addendum, Burners will not obtain the most awesome medical care within the next burn, CrowdRx, at present, does not have the permits, ambulances, or the good will of numerous people of north Nevada, whom support their HGH mates.
Claire, within her Facebook page, a prior lead RN at Rampart, is stating of the issues in a most professional manner, and shared a post, from HGH, discussing of this emphasis added:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Nicole Maher, Director
Community Education and Development
Humboldt General Hospital
(775) 761-2624
Email: nicole@hghospital.org
HGH EMS RESCUE SAYS BURNING MAN ‘LESSONS’ WILL BE INVALUABLE MOVING FORWARD
WINNEMUCCA, Nev.—“We wouldn’t trade our experience with Burning Man for anything.”
That was HGH EMS Rescue Chief Pat Songer’s statement last week after his agency was notified that their four-year contract providing medical care at the annual counter-culture festival has been terminated.
Songer said it’s those “lessons learned” that will stay with the agency long after memories of the dust, dehydration—and even death—fade away.
The art festival in Nevada’s Black Rock Desert gathers 70,000 people each Labor Day weekend, making the make-shift city Nevada’s fourth largest for one week.
“It was a challenge providing medical to over 450 community members each day,” said Songer, “but it was an exhilarating challenge and one that we are immensely grateful for.”
Humboldt General Hospital began providing medical care at Burning Man in 2011. Each year, Songer said his agency tweaked their contractual relationship with their host to compensate for increased numbers of participants and the associated risks of hosting one of the country’s largest mass gatherings in one of the world’s most remote and austere locations.
This year didn’t seem different except Songer said some safety concerns identified by his staff in 2014 needed clarification, so in February, the agency exercised their 180-day right to cancel their contract.
That happened in a meeting with Burning Man officials and the entire group agreed to move forward, intent on renegotiating a new contract that, among other things, would allow for at least one more EMS agency to provide backup in case festival numbers surged again, like they did in 2012. “We just wanted to continue that same level of preparedness,” said Songer. “After all, this is a large-scale event with the potential for an MCI in the middle of nowhere. I think some people forget the potential for disaster there.”
Still, the two parties tended to disagree on Humboldt General Hospital’s role: was the agency simply an event contractor or were they a public safety agency with all the associated risks and responsibilities?
Last week, when Burning Man officials announced they were negotiating a contract with CrowdRX, a large-scale event contractor, Songer said he got his answer.
“I think that was really the crux of our concerns,” he said. “When we came to this event, we saw it as an extension of our hospital. We were going to provide hospital-level care, even if it was in the middle of one of the world’s most remote locations.”
He continued, “We weren’t there as an event contractor, we were there as a medical provider in the Black Rock Desert—a fully operational, gold star-staffed medical facility.” Songer added, “I think as the event evolved and our expectations for safety continued to escalate, philosophically and operationally, we found ourselves on opposite sides of the coin.”
The agency was certainly planning to complete its initial five-year commitment, said Songer, and hoped to see that relationship continue beyond. Apparently, so did many others, including officials from local, state and federal governments, hospitals and even law enforcement. “There is safety concern out there,” Songer explained. “When Nevada is investing so much to hold an event of this magnitude here, you want there to be some long-term good that comes from that collaboration.” In other words, explained Songer, “you don’t want an out-of-state event contractor to simply take the money and run.”
Songer said that concern focuses on the differences between a Nevada medical provider that becomes a long-term asset to the state as it grows its present and future medical network, versus an out-of-state contractor that operates on a temporary medical license for seven days and then leaves. “Sure, you can issue that temporary license,” said Songer, “but what we’re hearing is worry about the long-term. When your hospital or your Nevada ambulance company provides those services, there is an investment there, an investment of time, experience, equipment, manpower and you come out more prepared—way more equipped for Nevada—than you went in.” When you bring in a temporary contractor, that goes away. You’re not empowering a medical network across the state, you’re simply funding an out-of-state business.” “I think that’s the worry,” Songer added.
With HGH out of the medical mix, and REMSA before that, Nevada’s medical network has definitely lost a one-of-a-kind training ground. That being said, Songer said he is proud of what HGH EMS Rescue brought to the festival’s table during his medical tenure including, according to Burning Man officials during early April, his agency’s ability to “shine a spotlight on safety.”
Other successes came with the agency’s partner relations, which Songer said were critical to his agency’s success at the event and in the future through the many mutual aid agreements forged during the festival. Songer also expressed gratitude for the opportunity to learn the complexities of mass casualty incidents—not only the ins and outs of staging such a massive medical operation, but also in learning to “trust other agencies that you only know for one week each year.” He praised the “once-in-a-lifetime chance” to assemble and work with a world-class medical team. “These weren’t contractors who go from event to event, these were medical practitioners at the top of their respective fields; they were there to practice medicine.”
Perhaps the agency’s greatest accomplishment on the Black Rock, however, was creating and adapting a system to the needs of the patients—fully in line with Humboldt General Hospital’s mission of “being helpful and caring for those in need.”
“These people wanted to stay on the playa,” he said of each year’s Burners. “They had invested a lot in terms of their time and money to get there and our job was to keep them there.” Songer added, “It’s no different than what we do at our community hospital. We have invested millions and millions of dollars to allow people to get their care right here at home. “When we went to the Black Rock, that model did not change, so we had to create a system that would allow patients to get the majority of their care “at home” on the playa.
Songer said there are those who will see the severed contract as a black mark for the rural EMS agency. “We don’t,” he said. “Burning Man did not define who we are; we defined the systems that made Burning Man’s medical an incredible model across the world,” he said.
Now, said Songer, HGH EMS Rescue will take that model and continue to adapt it to the other special events it oversees each year, including the increasingly popular music festival “Night in the Country” as well as the up-and-coming “Further Future” festival, 45 minutes outside of Las Vegas.
Of course, the model remains the core of HGH EMS Rescue’s delivery of pre-hospital care across 10,000 square miles, parts of two states and three counties.
“We had an excellent run with Burning Man,” said Songer, “and now all those resources, that knowledge and those experiences come home to our community.”
ABP, thank you for the additional investigations and information. Seems the quality of the care and the long-term contribution to the local community were the primary issues. Seems the BOrg needs to add a new principle: “Sacrifice benefit to the burners and the local community whenever convenient.”
Yup, I wonder at what will happen as they take their message globally. Oh, wait a minute… somehow seems their job is already done! 🙂
Thanks ABP, great find. A few things strike me:
– “shine a spotlight on safety”… We know they don’t like that
– Further Future… Are BMOrg threatened? Maybe it occurred to some of them that Larry’s comments against EDM are risking their $34 million cash cow; and making it harder for veterans to attend is creating a massive market of “After Burners” that is ten times bigger than the NV burn capacity. “We hate rich people and ravers”, be careful what you wish for!
– this has been a great example of how Black Rock City has a positive, beneficial effect on the local community. Sounds like keeping it this way would have required more sucking up and kow-towing from HGH, instead they tried to negotiate like an equal partner and got dumped like a hot potato.
Not only do we need a post about NPD, but a list of how the good guys can be sure to push the BOrg’s NPD buttons – if the guys have no other choice.
To put it mildly, Claire Gilles doesn’t know what the fuck she’s talking about.
CrowdRX is hiring people (just like HGH did) to work at the event. She’s claiming that they’re going to provide a poor quality service and aren’t equipped to handle (whatever) with NO proof or personal experience with them whatsoever. She’s talking out of her ass. People that worked with them at Coachella have said great things. Also, CrowdRX is hiring the very same people that were staffing Rampart previously! (The huge command staff that HGH had were HGH employees, most everyone below was a hired gun just for the event.)
There were EMS staff working with HGH that had *never* been to a burn before, *never* been to Burning Man, etc. It’s rumored that CrowdRX said that they want to hire Burners before anything else. As in, blending better with ESD (yellow) and paying them a bit to offer advanced life support services.
I hope you are right. I have had excellent service from HGH, so my only question was “if it ain’t broke, why fix it”? It worries me that CrowdRX might think Burning Man is like Coachella. We have different issues and challenges.
How are you qualified to know what is or is not “excellent” medical service? Are you an MD or a certified healthcare professional? This is necessary for your argument to be considered.
I’m a patient and have been a patient at multiple events. I’ve had better care on Playa than I have in my hometown. I’m not saying CrowdTX can’t handle it, because you are right, I don’t have experience with them. All I’ve said is the change worries me. Stop pouting because you lost an argument.
No, you used an ad hominem argument, which is logically flawed, like my comment above. Comments should always be taken on their face value. Discounting any comment based only due to its source and ignoring what has been said is not a valid argument.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
If you want to deal in a world where ad hominem arguments are valid, then you have to accept them from others. Most of the rest of us will consider comments based on their substance and not entirely discount them based on their source.
I can’t even figure out what you’re talking about anymore. You’ve failed to respond to any logical argument and now are complaining about Ad Hominem. BTW, as we discussed, if you’ve had a decent liberal education, you probably don’t have to look up Ad Hominem on wikipedia. Anyway I’m glad to hear you’ve dropped the NPD argument having realized it was Ad Hominem.
You really should look into getting your money back for your college tuition.
Creation is a far more satisfying activity than consumption or acquisition. This is the rationale behind Burning Man as stated by Larry Harvey on numerous occasions. It is what drove folks to the playa from the beginning. Everything is our default society tells us that by acquiring stuff, by becoming power consumers, we will find happiness. Inside we know this is a lie, but we have very few obvious opportunities to step outside the consumer model and discover the satisfaction of living in a society that is devoted to creation rather than consumption. This is why Burning Man is so important to people.
The pressure to consume comes from the top in our society, so once you wake up it is understandable to believe everyone in a position of power is corrupt, acquisitive, and operating in bad faith. It is natural to believe those people are in it for themselves and don’t care about the people whose lives are effected by their decisions. I have in the past referred to some anti-Bmorg crusaders as paranoid haters who want to destroy what others have created. This is unfair and short-sighted of me. While I still believe they are wrong, their suspicions are natural.
What I see now is these people have the best intentions, to protect something we all hold dear, but they are blinded by a prejudice against anyone with power and cannot judge or understand the members of the Bmorg as individuals. They assign to them the same twisted motivations they would assign the CEO of Monsanto. In doing so, they forget the original rationale for Burning Man; that creation is more satisfying than consumption or acquisition. The founders that are the core of Bmorg have been living this philosophy for almost thirty years. They have experienced first-hand the power of creation in their own lives. The event itself is their art project. They don’t seek to get rich off the event because they don’t need to. They have the satisfaction that comes from creation.
Creation is messy. It requires experimentation, failure, and persistence to get it right. So naturally the Bmorg is going to screw some things up as their creation is constantly changing and growing. This wouldn’t happen if the Bmorg were the type of organization many accuse them of being. If they were like our corporate masters, everything would be much more efficient and professional. Basically we have a gigantic event run by amateurs as one giant art project made up many more, smaller, art projects.
Take ticket prices as an example. If the Bmorg’s motivation was profit, tickets would cost $1000 by now. You know they could sell them out at that price. The event would suck and lose its spirit and purpose, but it could get by on its reputation for a while as those in power (prior to the non-profit) raked in the bucks. But that hasn’t happened. The small incremental increase in ticket pricing tells you one thing, the event is getting more expensive to produce as the population increases and has been operating at a very slim margin for years. And now with the non-profit, the Bmorg has made it so they can’t profit personally off the event in the future.
In addition to fighting the evil that is turning our country into a haven for nothing more than greed and consumption, you have to give people hope. Burning Man gives me hope. Burners give me hope. The founders give me hope, because they demonstrate that the rationale behind Burning man is sound. That the power of creation trumps greed and ego. They are human, and are subject to the same temptations and errors of judgement we are all subject to, but they have done a pretty good job of running this massive chaotic mess with integrity over the years
So fight the power, but don’t eliminate hope.
@Pooh Bear
>…but they are blinded by a prejudice against anyone with power and cannot judge or understand the members of the Bmorg as individuals
I don’t think there’s any issue against people with so-called power. Bmorg’s power is insignificant next to the power the politicians in any mid-size city anywhere in the US.
There is no envy of Bmorg’s ‘power’. Perhaps you’re beginning to come off the Kool Aid and that’s a good thing. You’ll eventually find that the individuals of Bmorg do not operate as individuals, they are collectivists – and quite twisted ones at that.
Imagining others envy them is CLASSIC NPD.
What is NPD? Who did I say is imagining someone envying them?
Here is your presumption of envy, but it generally permeates your post:
>…but they are blinded by a prejudice against anyone with power and cannot judge or understand the members of the Bmorg as individuals
NPD is Narcissistic Personality Disorder….
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20025568?reDate=25042015
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=UA9vrGXvphg
By the same author as the video, application of NPD to organizations…
http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/14.html
Okay, so it really comes down to you are making negative assumptions about the members of Bmorg. These theories keep changing. First they were accused of being sell outs and greedy. When the evidence showed that wasn’t going to fly, the accusation shifted to them having a personality disorder. Amazing that they all developed it at the same time and of course it can’t be proved or disproved unless they are examined by a psychologist. Anyway it just proves my point. You have a negative view of mankind and it colors your opinion of everything. I have a positive view of mankind, and it colors my opinion of everything. I think I chose the easier road.
Wait! You were accusing me of having NPD. Hahahaha. Where does accusing someone of a psychological disorder because they disagree with you fall on that scale and do you own a mirror. You will also note envy had nothing to do with any of my posts.
Pooh, I am astounded and amused how you can get everything wrong.
To drill down on just one point, Sam Vaknin’s NPD work and writings have helped thousands of people identify narcissists, and how to deal with them. A self-identified narcissist himself, his first book is considered the primary reference for narcissism by many forensic psychiatrists. But you have neither watched the video nor read the link. This in and of itself shows that you are one of the faithful to the NPD cult, earning their countenance, real or imagined. That, of course, is the way NPD works. It is a model that explains their otherwise bizarre behavior, and the strange traits of their faithful followers.
But as I noted, NPD is well known in business circles, and at this point it is apparent that some doing business with the BOrg have spotted this model governing their actions, and are exploiting it. Sad, really.
I have a degree in psychology and one thing I learned is there is always some new fad in psychology that suddenly applies to huge swaths of people and let’s armatures be able to analyse others. Funny that a narcissist should come up with a theory that puts narcissism at the center of all this stuff. You find a theory that justifies a belief that those who disagree with you or think differently than you must have a mental disorder and you accuse other people of narcissism? That would be the definition of irony.
If you think forensic psychiatrists, who work at state mental institutions and testify in court as to the sanity of crazy people the police gather from the streets, delve in “new fads,” that defines who you are and where your degree in psychology has taken you. I suspect that you often find life frustrating.
Nomad…I suspect you are familiar with the phenomena of how common it is for amateurs to diagnose others with issues they themselves have to contend with.
Pooh Bear, if you continue reading this site, you’ll find that Nomad can attribute just about anything having to do with the BMORG to NPD. It’s a little reductive, but it must be comforting to him to have narrowed down life’s problems to one source. Some people have God, some people have chem trails, Nomad has NPD.
Abilene you must tell me more about the collectivist thing. I’m a socialist, which is, I think, collectivist, so that would be a positive to me. If drinking the kook aid means I think the founders are heroes, I’m afraid I’m still there.
@Pooh Bear
Socialists are collectivists with an ideology. In the collectivist mindset (and this isn’t a criticism) the collective is more important than the individual. The non-collectivist, or ‘individualist’, places primary importance on the individual. Generally speaking, people are either or.
IMO, collectivists get locked down in to group think very quickly and form an echo chamber of thought, and seek to define and defend the boundaries of where the collective begins and ends; who is in and out. That’s fine.
I’ve seen the worst having participated in these collectives at BM for over a decade and in other circles. It can get really strange and quite vicious. I suppose everyone should try it for the experience/education. I was lucky to come through the other side of that kind of social… mess (for lack of a better word).
Having learned what I’ve learned, I will never again in my life get involved with collectivists. I rather die alone with strangers in a strange land.
Socialist believe in a collective effort to provide each individual what he/she needs to thrive as an individual. Burning Man is an event about creating an environment where each individual has the freedom to be their most honest self. I think this is simply a theory you are over generalizing and applying without any evidence.
well said, Abalone! Completely agree with this assessment. Layer NPD into that collectivist, conformist mix, then put in a sprinkle of spooky occultism mixed with tech industry networking and hey presto! Funny how these communes/collectives keep springing up out of the Bay Area…
Wow, I need hip deep boots to get through all supposition and diagnosies being made by unqualified people. At least there is one thing that is clear. There is definitely some narssisim going on here.
OK, Pooh, here are the criteria for NPD from a little outfit known as the Mayo Clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20025568?reDate=27042015
“DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features:
– Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
– Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
– Exaggerating your achievements and talents
– Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
– Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
– Requiring constant admiration
– Having a sense of entitlement
– Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
– Taking advantage of others to get what you want
– Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
– Being envious of others and believing others envy you
– Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner”
Can you and your degree in psychology cite some examples of who here seems to meet these criteria?
No I can’t. You know why? I’m not a psychologist and I haven’t had you or anyone else here in a therapeutic situation. I know enough about psychology to be dangerous. I know enough to know you need years of training and supervised counseling experience to understand how the DSM applies and how it should be used. I know that those who put out the DSM would be horrified that amateurs were using it to judge others who they haven’t had in a therapeutic situation, and worse, who they haven’t even met. I can say it is my opinion you have a negative view of humanity based on our exchanges, but I wouldn’t say you have a depressive disorder, because I’m not qualified to make that call.
But perhaps those who think they are qualified to make those judgements without training; those who accuse others of being crazy because they disagree with your opinion; should spend a little time exploring your own relationship with narcissism.
But I would be curious to hear how you think those criteria apply to anything I’ve said.
Pooh, sorry that your studies of psychology were not more productive such that it would let you understand the NPD dance of two, often under the general psychological term afolie à deux. A narcissist needs an audience, or more correctly, a following to enable them. Just as physical abuse needs a victim to go with the abuser, so a narcissist needs an abused group to support and enable their magical thinking. In fact, the supporters of the narcissist often seek them out – they are not created by the narcissist so much as simply found or attracted. While there is a long shot that you are the narcissist playing a subtle dodge (looking for new followers), you are more likely part of the BOrg’s “privileged” follower cult, acting out your role of supporting their magical world.
Your arguments that these type of psychological evaluations are left to professionals shows that you do not understand a liberal education. To manage our world, we all develop models for how it works. We look for repeating patterns that help us avoid problems. Just as you don’t need to be Neil deGrasse Tyson to know your car will take longer to stop full of passengers than when it’s only you, and you don’t need to be the Secretary of the Treasury to do your taxes, and you don’t need to be a board-certified surgeon to clean and put a band-aid on a scratch, so we all apply our knowledge in how we manage our everyday lives. We expand and use our knowledge and develop systems of understanding.
Most all people who deal with NPDs do so in a non-professional setting. After all, having NPD is not a crime, any more than ADD or OCD are. They are all among the psychological disorders that we all encounter, or even have, that we must manage without the direct involvement of a psychiatrist or other full-time professional.
So, understanding that the BOrg operationally has NPD, diagnosed or not, is helpful so long as that model predicts their behavior, particularly as it differs from the norm. Thus understanding NPD helps you understand the BOrg, and why they do things that are otherwise bizarre. If “NPD” bothers you, then just consider is a label for a package of predictable behaviors.
Of course until you see the spell you have cast on yourself to earn your role as loyal follower, none of this can have any purchase. The less you know, the happier you are.
Nomad, based on behavior I’ve observed from you; you suffer from narcissism, a messiah complex, a persecution complex, delusions, and possibly a depressive disorder. That is because the symptoms outlined in the DSM are so broad they could be applied to anyone. All humans express these behaviors from time to time. In order to actually diagnose someone with them you have to understand context, prevalence, and the effect on the subject’s life. In California the easiest counseling license to get is for a Marriage and Family therapist. That requires 3000 hours of supervised counseling experience before the license is granted. If all one would need to diagnose someone based on the DSM is a liberal education, why isn’t everyone with a BA granted a counseling license? I’ve worked at a university for 20 years, so I think I understand a little about a liberal education. A liberal education doesn’t teach you what to think, it teaches you how to think. Yes we all have an instinctual understanding of physics. That’s why a little league player can track a hit ball and catch it. That doesn’t require a liberal education, it is an instinct. A liberal education isn’t going to teach you why the ball flew the way it flew, that will require a specialty in physics. Just as the diagnosis of psychological phenomena requires a specialty in psychology.
You want something to hang on the Bmorg. Greed won’t work anymore, so you’ve invented this theory about NPD you are not qualified to make. Even if you were a licensed therapist you wouldn’t be qualified to make it because you haven’t interviewed the people involved. I could diagnose you with a number of things based on our brief interactions. None of them would be legitimate.
” A narcissist needs an audience, or more correctly, a following to enable them. Just as physical abuse needs a victim to go with the abuser, so a narcissist needs an abused group to support and enable their magical thinking.”
Sounds like a certain Blog I’m familiar with, you would be part of the abused group. But I’m not qualified to make that judgement, so you need not worry.
Yes you will find plenty of magical thinking here – like the idea that “transparency” is different from “we keep two sets of books, one for the public and one for ourselves”.
Clearly, ego inflation and self aggrandizement is the purpose of this blog, that’s why I plastered my name all over it and use it to constantly boast about my accomplishments. Our audience, now measured in tens of millions, must all suffer from mental illness, at the same time they are enabling mine.
Wow. i didn’t name you but you recognized yourself. Interesting.
Anyway my point was, based on your own criteria (and yes there is a lot of magical thinking in your writing i.e. all the suppositions you make, like “two sets of books”) you would qualify as having NPD and that diagnosis is completely unfounded because I am not qualified to make it. Just as you are not qualified to make it about the Bmorg.
As a fool once said “I know you are, but what am I”.
Only a fool would believe the words of an organization that specifically employs a Minister of Propaganda, the first to do so since Hitler. But please, explain this and how it is not a set of books that is not visible to the public, and one that is?
https://burnersxxx.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/screenshot-2015-04-28-11-07-51.png
A. You know very well that “Minister of Propaganda” is tongue in cheek, or you have no sense of humor (another symptom of psychological pathology). B. As it clearly says in the blurb you sited, they can’t disclose the numbers yet because THEY DON’T KNOW THE NUMBERS! That would be why you get an audit.
By the way, the only tattoo i have is the Fool card. It is a great complement to me. To be the Holy Fool is my highest aspiration.
The audit is complete now, for both years. So they DO have the numbers, that’s not the reason. Next guess! What else could it be?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/90/RWS_Tarot_00_Fool.jpg
Ignoring the fact you have once again changed the subject from NPD I’ll simply asked this. When you called headquarters and explained you would like the results of the audit for an article you are writing, what was their response?
And yes that is what my tattoo looks like except instead of the man I have Pooh Bear.
Yes, Burnersxxx, you changed the subject from his claim that you “would qualify as having NPD” to your challenging his evidence to claim that you had NPD. …But since you are not a lawyer, you are not qualified to discuss anything having to do with evidence.
…Oh look, there is a squirrel!
So you have a degree in psychology? And 20 years in academia?
I have a BA in Psychology. As I always say, that is enough to be dangerous. I have an MA in Political Science. I work at a university. I’m not an academic.
And you can’t recognize people acting with extreme personality disorders? I don’t have a degree in psychology, but I have decades of experience dealing with narcissists, people with inferiority complexes, pathological liars, and so on. A pity you let life in the school environment limit your knowledge in such a way.
No Burnersxxx, you think you can judge other people’s psychological state, but you are not qualified to do so. Sometimes what education teaches you is what you don’t know. Basically you are a four year old with a box of matches.
Pooh, I am thinking you might want to try to get your money back for that BS in psych. Or was that from the same university that you work for now?
In other words Nomad, you don’t have a logical response to my argument.
Also, I never accused Bxxx of having NPD. I said, by the criteria you two champion, it would be easy to accuse you both of it. The problem is your criteria doesn’t fly.
Yes, the NPD criteria do apply, and apply to the BOrg. Burnersxxx was giving you an example of unnecessary secrecy to manipulate the available facts, as well as being duplicitous in constantly promising transparency – to feed the faithful followers like you – while carefully and consistently avoiding it.
Nomad, neither you nor Burnersxxx has any idea about whether the criteria apply to the Bmorg because you aren’t qualified to make that judgement. If you would like to get a qualified therapist to interview the Bmorg and get them to back you up, I’ll be glad to listen to your argument. Or you could go to school and put in the 3000 hours of supervised counseling, then I will listen to you.
Your arguments that these type of psychological evaluations are left to professionals shows that you do not understand a liberal education. To manage our world, we all develop models for how it works. We look for repeating patterns that help us avoid problems. Just as you don’t need to be Neil deGrasse Tyson to know your car will take longer to stop full of passengers than when it’s only you, and you don’t need to be the Secretary of the Treasury to do your taxes, and you don’t need to be a board-certified surgeon to clean and put a band-aid on a scratch, so we all apply our knowledge in how we manage our everyday lives. We expand and use our knowledge and develop systems of understanding.
Most all people who deal with NPDs do so in a non-professional setting. After all, having NPD is not a crime, any more than ADD or OCD are. They are all among the psychological disorders that we all encounter, or even have, that we must manage without the direct involvement of a psychiatrist or other full-time professional.
So, understanding that the BOrg operationally has NPD, diagnosed or not, is helpful so long as that model predicts their behavior, particularly as it differs from the norm. Thus understanding NPD helps you understand the BOrg, and why they do things that are otherwise bizarre.
Since your are repeating an argument that has already been debunked, i’ll repeat my answer. Psychological analysis doesn’t become simple just because you need it to for your argument to fly. You don’t have the education required to make a diagnosis based on the DSM. You just don’t. if that is your only argument…you don’t have an argument.
“Nomad, based on behavior I’ve observed from you; you suffer from narcissism, a messiah complex, a persecution complex, delusions, and possibly a depressive disorder. That is because the symptoms outlined in the DSM are so broad they could be applied to anyone. All humans express these behaviors from time to time. In order to actually diagnose someone with them you have to understand context, prevalence, and the effect on the subject’s life. In California the easiest counseling license to get is for a Marriage and Family therapist. That requires 3000 hours of supervised counseling experience before the license is granted. If all one would need to diagnose someone based on the DSM is a liberal education, why isn’t everyone with a BA granted a counseling license? I’ve worked at a university for 20 years, so I think I understand a little about a liberal education. A liberal education doesn’t teach you what to think, it teaches you how to think. Yes we all have an instinctual understanding of physics. That’s why a little league player can track a hit ball and catch it. That doesn’t require a liberal education, it is an instinct. A liberal education isn’t going to teach you why the ball flew the way it flew, that will require a specialty in physics. Just as the diagnosis of psychological phenomena requires a specialty in psychology.
You want something to hang on the Bmorg. Greed won’t work anymore, so you’ve invented this theory about NPD you are not qualified to make. Even if you were a licensed therapist you wouldn’t be qualified to make it because you haven’t interviewed the people involved. I could diagnose you with a number of things based on our brief interactions. None of them would be legitimate.”
Yes, it’s a repeat, and you started it.
There is a great echo here. Wish I could yodel. 🙂
Pooh Bear drops the mic!
I think Nomad and burnersxxx are to something potentially lucrative here: Comment Section Psychiatry. Doctors, what’s your prescription!!??
Happy pills. Happy pills for everyone! 🙂 /drops 100 mikes
How are either of you qualified to identify what might or might not be a microphone? Do you hold a valid FCC Commercial Broadcast Engineer License? If you provide some professional electroacoustic or broadcast certification I’ll be glad to listen to your argument.
OK, time to get ahead of the curve on this one again. Presuming they don’t run back to HGH, and people complain enough about the job that CrowdRx does, here is my GUESS as to their October propaganda release (No, Burnersxxx, this is not yet a quote from them):
“We know there were a lot of problems with our new medical services provider, CrowdRx. They have a lot to learn about being hours away from an ER or timely ambulance service for over a week. But they are learning. Our investigations have shown that the CrowdRx team leadership was compromised by the inexperience of Mr. X. CrowdRx has assured us that he will no longer be involved in any future BM services. And we are not without blame (yes, we have “healthy shame,” Nomad). The BM lead, Mr. Y, was a bad choice, leading to bad management from our side. He has been given the opportunity to seek employment elsewhere. These adjustments in responsible parties should solve the problems we had at the 2015 burn.”
This will sure there are new people in charge so they can make the same mistakes. Recycling at its best!
And if CrowdRx does not suck up/kick back to the BOrg, it will be much shorter:
“We know there were a lot of problems with our new medical services provider, CrowdRx. Rest assured, you won’t be seeing them again at BM.”
Followed by… “We have decided that a better solution is for us to bear the financial burden of issuing everyone a copy of the Boy Scout Handbook at the gate. This will let us crowd-source the medical care. We want you all to read Chapter 4! Chapter 7 is good too, for those that need a refresher.” http://bsahandbook.org/
Yes…obviously they want kickbacks, because they turned down the $1.2 million dollars they were legally entitled to so they could risk prosecution for $10K they are not entitled too. Makes sense to me.
All those people got jail sentences in Atlanta, and none on Wall Street. Main difference? Lawyers. I am sure the BOrg, spending many times more on legal fees than on art, will not have any problems in that department.
Besides. it’s not the money so much as the ring kissing. All in all, I am sure CrowdRx is providing more narcissistic supplies than HGH did. Unlike salesmen and lawyers, doctors tend to treat NPD rather than exploit it.
You are simply talking out your ass about things you don’t know anything about. No one is getting rich off Burning Man. There is no, and never has been, evidence that anyone is getting rich off of Burning Man. Your “kiss the ring” thing is equally speculative. The founders had a legal and moral right to get rich off of Burning Man and they turned it down. You obviously don’t have anyone in your life with integrity because you clearly are always looking for the scam, whether it exists or not.
While I appreciate your free-association with new issues you want to put in play, and you feeling the need to resort to ad hominem attacks, no one has complained here about people “getting rich.” You have provided no challenges to my observations that the BOrg is exhibiting classic organizational NPD behavior, and is likely consequentially being manipulated by others to the detriment of the burners.
…What was your comment again about why we cannot have nice discussions?
Larry Harvey, talking to the New York Times within 2011, ‘about the changes ahead for the Burner Community:’
‘We’re going to treat Burning Man like what it always should have been: not as a commodity, but as a gift,” Mr. Harvey said, explaining the festival’s multiyear transition strategy during an April 1 speech in San Francisco. Before handing Burning Man over to the new nonprofit, he added, the company’s owners will take an undisclosed payout. And this is where things get complicated’
What proof might we have in regards of their ‘undisclosed’ payout? As Pooh Bear knows, but he insists upon repeating his false statements numerous times-
2010- payroll raised from $2.8 million to $7.2 million, with solely 30 employees within 2012 January to move to their Market Street headquarters, as stated within the sfpublicpress, and paying little towards temporary labourers, leaves more than $4 million, of payroll, to be paid towards the 6 members of the BMOrg
2011 – payroll was $7.1 million, and pay to contractors raised by near to $1 million dollars, with solely 40 people to pay within the beginning of 2012, and paying little towards temporary labourers, leaves near to $4 million, of payroll, to be paid towards the 6 members of the BMOrg.
2012 – payroll raised to $7.8 million, leaves near to $4 million, of payroll, to be paid towards the 6 members of the BMOrg.
2013 … payroll, in addendum of ‘the company’s owners will take an undisclosed payout’
end of 2013 – $7.1 million deduction upon tax levies for their donation
2018 = they are, at present, within contract, to sell the Burning Man(TM) name, and other trademarks, to the Project, and take a deduction upon tax levies for the remains of the value of the trademarks. In addendum, stated within the 2014 ticket terms, Decommodification LLC, owned by the 6 members of the BMOrg, owns the IP of Burning Man.
This is solely of what they disclosed towards the Burner community. What cash might they taken towards their pockets that was not disclosed towards the Burner community?
Excellent spreadsheet, ABP. Thank you. (I hope you have all those Afterburn links saved offline. I do.)
ABP, do you have, or is it possible to create a spreadsheet that shows the hard costs over the same years. If you don’t know, “hard costs” is a typical construction term that refers to the actual expenses to do the event (in this case the work in the field, port-a-potties, dust control contracts, fees and permits), distinct from “soft costs” which are generally overhead and profit.
http://construction.about.com/od/Cost-Control/a/Hard-Costs.htm
http://construction.about.com/od/Cost-Control/tp/Understanding-Soft-Costs.htm
Since contract construction is still the largest sector of the economy, it is a good financial model to evaluate the expenses portion of the BOrg Income and Expenses statement. Of course the gray area of hard and soft expenses is where the games are attractive, but the construction model will usually clarify. For example, the creative imagination of a project – the design architect – is a soft cost.
BTW, given the current topic, the medical care for the burners (the workers) would be a hard cost, while medical care/insurance for the BOrg (the designers) would be a soft cost.
Nomad, a gent I do not know, Woody, was most awesome in creating the spreadsheet of prior afterburn reports, linked in blue, above.
My belief is the BMOrg owes the donors of cash, stock, labour, and art, information on where the $30.5 million of BRC LLC, dba Burning Man, ticket money goes, in place of hiding the information from donors. It is easy peasy of 501(c)3 whom desires transparency, to publish their signed and audited financial statements, send and publish their 990 form by the deadline within May, in place of delaying the 990 form 6 months until November, and in the manner of the awesome regionals, some of whom are 501(c)3 public benefit corporations, publish a true list of expenses, and revenues, in detail.
This is an example of a 501(c)3 whom desires transparency, they published their signed and audited 2014 financials, and send and publish their 990 form within May.
The afterburn reports are saved within the Internet Archives. Nomad, might you desire to provide links in blue, highlight a link of burnerxxx, right click, copy outer HTML, and paste, and edit.
Since lost of those links past 2009 are dead, I will leave it up to CA and the IRS to pursue this further. As it stands, it appears that the event costs less than $10 million in hard costs. The added overhead and profit is suggested in your linked spreadsheet salaries, but surely includes more, even not considering hard costs that are to the benefit of the BOrg members.
Anyone contributing to the BMP is clearly not paying attention if they think their money is going to benefit a typical non-profit. As I have said before, this calls into question any other CA non-profits.
Some further speculation on motivations…
– they want deaths or other serious injuries / assaults proclaimed in Reno, not BRC
– deal in place with Reno ambulance service
– HGH wouldn’t follow orders
– there are plans for at least one more major Burning Man event in the US
Nomad’s paranoia about the Bmorg’s motivations and integrity notwithstanding, I think this may be a mistake. I have received vital and quality care from Rampart as have many of my friends. This is vital service on Playa and I don’t understand why they are fixing something that is not broken.
They may want to make a show of hiring an organization that has experience with festivals. They have been repeatedly criticized in the past for not hiring experts in the area of ticketing and will call, so perhaps they thought this was a choice that would be embraced by the community. As I have said repeatedly, the Bmorg is working on the edges. They have to come up with procedures for something no one has ever done before. That means mistakes will be made, not for sinister reasons, but simply because the way ahead isn’t always clear.
Clearly CrowdRX doesn’t have the expertise or resources that HGH has. I would encourage the Bmorg to cancel the contract with CrowdRX and revive their relationship with HGH. I realize this is like trying to get back together with your ex after you’ve dumped her for that hot chick that turned out to be crazy, but I think this change could put Burners at risk.
Good luck with that Pooh. Ticketing and Will Call are both clearly broken, but what did not work about HGH doing the medical? If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it. Then again, sadly, as others and I have outlined, it may be broken in contexts that have nothing to do with medical care for the burners.
Why prematurely terminate the existing contract? Any inside dope?
“They may want to make a show of hiring an organization that has experience with festivals.”
Yes, this is my hunch as well. Another move in a long line of them away from amateurism (in the best sense) and towards boring professionalism.
Commodification anyone?
Nomad, dial back the paranoia. What does replacing one contracted outfit for a different contracted outfit, for the same money, have to do with commodification? This is why we can’t have nice things… I mean discussions.
“… away from amateurism (in the best sense) and towards boring professionalism.”
That is a way of saying commodification. Instead of having HGH provide what the burn needs, the burn will be commodified into what CrowdRx provides services for. Is someone providing what you need, or are you buying something pre-defined, commodified.
HGH has, over many years, developed a set of services to meet the needs of the NV burn, at a contracted price, that has gotten unqualified support here. With a contract and price set to continue for 2015, the BOrg has decided to vacate that contract for undisclosed reasons.
“What does replacing one contracted outfit for a different contracted outfit…”
Thus the services provided are a replaceable commodity, and you will see no difference in services provided. All your praise for HGH will directly apply to CrowdRx. They will overcome all the limitations of never having done the NV burn before while providing as good, or better services.
“…for the same money…” That has yet to be demonstrated here. Do you have any evidence to support that statement?
If my NPD agenda analysis is right, the contract will be for more, and the services will be inferior, if not both. But that’s only from the utterly irrelevant viewpoint of the burners. I am sure the CrowdRx will achieve all sorts of undisclosed goals. And if the BOrg gets their NPD buttons played like they have in the past, CrowdRx, at least, will put more money in the bank.
Presuming the contract is for the same amount, where did the CrowdRx profit come from? Presuming money is neither created nor destroyed (i.e., it is not the Government), that profit is coming from cash that was otherwise paid to HGH. How does that transfer of funds help the burn? (I am sure there are many NPD supplies that the BOrg will get, if you count that.)
But maybe it’s just that all those administrative BOrg staff trying to make work to justify their full-time jobs. So, lets screw around with an existing contract where the existing services get overwhelming compliments. Yeah, that’s the ticket! Nothing else to do today. And break the contract to make more money for the lawyers, too – you know, those guys that always pick up the tab for the drinks on Friday.
Oh, and I forgot… There will most certainly be some BOrg new-hire to throw under the bus in October when all the complaints come in. See Jimmy’s apology (sic) for his CCamp.
Sorry, if you know who you are. 😉 Sorrier more if you don’t. 🙁
You are taking a meaningless statement and applying meaning to it. What you are quoting is just flak jargon for nothing at all. By definition all care provided by medical professionals, is professional care. They can call it amateur, but that is just blowing smoke. I really think this is just about appearances, CrowdRX has experience working with festivals, so to the outside world it looks responsible to hire them. That ignores the fact that Burning Man is completely different than any of the festivals they work for and they will have a very steep learning curve to get through. HGH has already learned those lessons. I just think you have commodification on the brain. This has nothing to do with commodification.
So Pooh, can you cite an example of commodification, so we can see how it is distinct from what the BOrg has done here to the burner medical needs?
Commodification is using the intellectual property to make Burning Man tee-shirts and get rich. Something the Bmorg has always had the right to do and refused to do it. Hiring a company to perform a needed business function is just business. All non-profits do it. All this time and complaining and you don’t even know the definition of commodification?
Sounds like commercialization and use of IP. It also does not jibe with Wikipedia:
“Commodification – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodification
Commodification is the transformation of goods and services, as well as ideas or other entities that normally may not be considered goods, into a commodity (in the Marxist sense of the word). The Marxist understanding of commodity is distinct from the meaning of commodity in mainstream business theory. One way to summarize the difference is that commoditization is about proprietary things becoming generic, whereas commodification is about unsalable things becoming salable.”
“Unsalable things becoming salable.” Yeah, I like that. Would you like to buy a space in our CCamp? Would you like to bid on our heath services?
And how the hell does that description have anything to do with the medical services discussion. What are they turning into a commodity? Medical service is an expense. It’s going to cost the same or more with the new contractor. What are you talking about?
As JV said, “… away from amateurism (in the best sense) and towards boring professionalism.”
That is a way of saying commodification. Instead of having HGH provide what the burn needs, the burn will be commodified to be sale-able to CrowdRx. Is someone providing what you need; or, are you being commodified into something that can be sold?
HGH does not exist to meet the NV burn needs, but to meet local medical needs. Over the years, they have developed the medical support that the burn needs, and do it well based on all the report here.
“As JV said, “… away from amateurism (in the best sense) and towards boring professionalism.”
That is a way of saying commodification.”
That’s not really what I meant. I was agreeing that the BMORG hired CrowdRx mostly for appearance’s sake, in that this company specifically handles event medical care, whereas the HGH support was basically an ad hoc effort developed organically to handle Burning Man needs. To outside observers, CrowdRx is an easily digestible entity. “Oh, the event-based medical service company, gotcha. You got this covered.”
Commodication doesn’t come into play here, because as others have stated, BMORG was already paying HGH for a service. Simply switching vendors for a service they were already paying for is not a move towards more commodification. If BMORG suddenly started paying for a service that was currently unpaid, that’s a different story, but this ain’t that.
JV, how do you differentiate commodification from commercialization?
I’d define commodification as monetizing social interactions. For instance, Air BnB has commodified couch-surfing. They’ve taken what was once a personal, ad hoc and usually free interaction and placed a monetary transaction in the middle of it. With regards to Burning Man, it would be the monetization of any number of social interactions that are currently gift-based.
Commercialization, with regards to Burning Man, would be, for instance, the licensing of the Burning Man brand to a corporation for a monetary sum, wherein that corporation can associate the BM brand with its products. To me, that’s different that commodification. And in the case of HGH vs. CrowdRx, neither comes into play. BM was already paying HGH for a service, just like they do lots of infrastructurally crucial vendors. They simply switched vendors for reasons of the appearance of legitimacy to outside observers, in my opinion.
JV, so by “paying HGH for a service, just like they do lots of infrastructurally crucial vendors,” you are saying that the HGH service is the same and interchangable for all intents and purposes? Like one pork belly and another pork belly?
It’s a crucial service, like the porta-potties, that will not get done by an all-volunteer staff, so a vendor is needed. HGH was one vendor, CrowdRx is another. I can’t say whether the level of service between the two is interchangeable.
JV, you make no differentiation between them, therefore their services, and thus the NV burn medical needs, have been commodified. You can, apparently, do the NV burn anywhere you can assemble the commodified pieces. Burning Man is a unique event, the NV burn is not.
The NV burn medical needs were commodified by necessity many years ago once the event got to a large enough size where the BLM required professional medical staff onsite in order to issue a permit. There are many services crucial to the NV burn that can only be done by a paid vendor. However, I don’t believe this commodifies the event itself.
Well HGH was certainly professional. Medical service at BM has been professional for some years now. I just feel they didn’t want to hurt the feelings of gate staff, so rather than hire professionals in that area, they opted to show flexibility with something they thought no one cared that much about. I think this was a bad decision, but I don’t think the Bmorg had any ill intent.
So, it’s just plain incompetency, and disassociation with the burners and their satisfaction (it ain’t broke) with the HGH services. How else do you explain their decision to vacate the existing contract? Cosmic rays?
I hesitate to use the word incompetency. They do manage to put on a massive festival every year with a ridiculous number of moving parts. No one has a PhD in Burning Man. I think this was a mistake made while trying to respond to a concern by the BLM. People make mistakes. I have. I suspect you have too.
Sure, we all make mistakes. The difference is what you do when it happens. Do you do what you can to correct the mistake? Or, do you do a coverup or obfuscate the situation to divert blame?
In psychology, the difference is usually called “healthy shame.” And the lack of healthy shame, refusal to accept blame and divert it to others, is a primary indicator of NPD.
I wonder if they cut the contract as a way to blame HGH for the “poor portable toilet sanitation and the lack of communication between Burning Man’s own emergency support staff and staff employed by the medical support services provider.” Does not sound like that is scoring high with the BLM: “I’m somewhat apprehensive with a new medical provider coming on with only four months before implementation,” said Gene Seidlitz.
Must be a lot more to this story, one way or another.
It’s clear that someone at HGH didn’t kiss the ring. When doing anything with the Borg, you must kiss the ring, unless you’re holding the .gov card.
A year or so ago a long-time DPW dispatcher was given the boot because he publicly stated that they were unable to communicate effectively on the broken down radios, and that it was a risk to public safety. My guess is that HGH voiced a similar objection and someone like Crimson flipped out.
Awesome post, burnersxxx, presenting the information, and presenting the query of ‘What is the purpose of the BMOrg of doing this?’, of which, it is not answered. Gratitude is owed to the awesome doctors, nurses, medics, and others whom have provided the most brilliant medical care. Humbolt General Hospital has provided brilliant medical care, for, by appearances, an appropriate amount of cash.
CrowdRX, by appearances, has done EDM festivals, and other big festivals, but near to hospitals, not numerous miles from hospitals. An ambulance might require of near to 7 hours to venture to Reno, and back to the playa, thus an awesome emergency room is required upon the playa, and, by statements of the awesome medical people, CrowdRX is not of the ability to do so, at present.
What politics, perchance, might this decision be in due of? Might this be in due of the numerous issues in due of the BLM office within Winnemucca, of which, the BMOrg is venturing to Washington DC to discuss with their ministers, within other items the BMOrg desires to discuss in Washington, issues in due of the little town police, judge, and DA within Lovelock, near to Winnemucca, and Humbolt General Hospital, in addendum, is within Winnemucca? The decision to hire CrowdRX, by appearances, occurred prior of the BMOrg ending of the contract with HGH. The BMOrg stated the cost will be near to the same, thus, perchance, it might not be in due of the costs, thus, what is the purpose of the BMOrg of doing this?
Penned upon page 1 of What Every Nonprofit Board Member Should Know, of Adler and Colvin,
‘In carrying out most of your obligations and responsibilities as a director you will almost certainly well exceed the minimum legal standards that you must follow to steer clear of legal trouble. You will focus instead on whether a particular action or policy being considered: (1) is in the best interests of the organization, (2) will help present the organization in a positive light to the public, and (3) is, in any case, morally and ethically appropriate. Consider the following decision pyramid:’ Then, a picture, of a pyramid, Ethics is the top upon Public Perception is upon Best Interests of Organization is upon Basic Legal Standards.
This comment was intended to be placed in response of Nomad’s query of ‘Why should they?’
That’s the textbook answer, quite literally. People don’t follow text books, they do things for their own reasons, particularly those who are used to exercising privilege. (That’s why they write the book,)
So again, why should the BMP BoD do the right thing? As it appears, there is no incentive to do so and no consequences if they don’t. Moreover, there are incentives to do whatever they can to hide and obfuscate any information.
Many of the people upon the Project board are most honourable, in despite of the BMOrg selecting the board in due of their own rationales and agendas. A person must be of the belief of the people desiring of doing the right thing. The Project board members, other than a few within the BMOrg, do not have the incentives to do whatever they might to hide and obfuscate any information.
Then, again, why don’t they do the right thing?
Im a paramedic/ flight medic for the state of Nevada for past 15 years. I’ve worn the blue shirt at burning man and I’m also a fellow Burner.. HGH does it right for BM.. Top notch staff and the best Docs..! So good that one of the main MD’s is a fellow burner and he also literally wrote all my paramedic books.. This guy is medical rock star status..! So this shows the quality of care HGH is providing. Also.. HGH tries its best to keep Burners on the playa, they want everyone to enjoy their burn and not transport to make a profit like other services would do. HGH also had a 24hr fix winged air ambulance service (Life Guard air ambulance) stationed on the playa and also Careflight air ambulance helicopter service for back up. So HGH was always prepared for the worse. Ambulance service on playa- all the medics on the ambulances are licensed paramedic for the state of Nevada and must posses an attendance Liscense with the health district. When I first volunteered HGH I was blown away on how they handled the large numbers of patients seen at rampart. Does anyone realize Rampart Hospital at BM becomes one of the busiest ERs in the country..? There’s articles in EMS magazines on how well HGH does BM…. CrowdRX.. Good luck.!! I hope you have a good ideal what’s involved in a type of medical infrastructure needed for BM. And that you won’t be a huge burden on the local EMS system. Because if this happens, there will be delayed care for people in need due to lack of resources.
When the quality of care drops, I am sure there will be someone replaceable to blame.
BMorg usually relies on getting critical cases swiftly off the playa so that they’re not pronounced dead at the actual event, which keeps the press clean. If CrowdRX can’t do this efficiently, I think we finally get the real death toll number this year.
I worked for HGH during the 2014 Burn. Supply Clerk, 2-12hr. shifts and no, I was not a virgin, nor did I need tickets. It was just time to see a new part of the entire experience. The entire medical staff was fantastic!! I watched them literally save lives. It was very rewarding personally and I would do it again. The Burn will be missing a valuable piece if HGH is not there.
I see no mention of the previous factor you cited, “the departure of Joseph Pred, long-time head of Burning Man’s Emergency Services Department.”
http://burners.me/2015/03/21/bmorg-humboldt-hospital-cut-contract-early/
http://blog.burningman.com/2013/12/news/joseph-pred-burning-mans-emergency-services-operations-chief-moves-on/
The RN burner makes good points. My cynical guess would be that Humboldt did not give enough narcissistic supplies to the BOrg, and the BOrg figure they could get the services for less, or at least get an off-the-books kickback. (Keep an eye on the BOrg BoD and new contributions.) The quality of care, beyond pure propaganda perception, like all issues related to the health and welfare of the hated burners, is irrelevant.
I imagine the BOrg, in their NPD way, thinks they are holding all the high cards in this game. But the opposite is true.
Not only does the BLM hold the permit high card, but by the BOrg making the change from a previously-acceptable provider, they are putting in jeopardy their hopes of putting pressure from DC – that is, of course, unless the DC people are owned by CowdRx. In that case, CrowdRX holds the high card. But if they don’t, both HGH and CrowdRx are both in better positions to up their price since the BLM permit is in jeopardy. The losers in this case are the BOrg and the burners.
Fun to watch. Glad I don’t have a dog in this fight. 🙂
On further thought, I wonder if their DC contacts have not played the BOrg into switching to CrowdRx. After all, that reflects a change from local to national coffers and favors.
The only thing more fun than watching an NPD act out, is watching someone play them by pushing their obvious and hard-wired buttons. And rest assured, given the permeation of NPDs in government and corporate management, their buttons and pushing them is a skill known to most in power. I can only imagine how easy and cute manipulating the amateur BOrg must be, compared to the big players.
After all, how else can you explain the BOrg BoD? Of course Larry & Co provided their own NPD supplies by being impressed by who they chose, but the directors must have known what was going on. In fact, I am surprised that none of them complained that the BoD was not representative for the event. On the contrary, that they did not complain about who were members of their little club speaks volumes to whom they are.
But the directors must have known what was going on?
120 days after the start of the year, the BMOrg is required to state towards the Project board, conflicts of interests, including of the numbers. Perchance, might a few directors be a tad surprised on April 30? My desire is of they vote to provide transparency towards donors of cash, stock, labour, and art, the directors are of the ability to require of the BMOrg to publish their signed and audited 2014 financial statements, their event expenses and revenues including of profit sent towards the Project, and require of the BMOrg to send to the U.S. government the 990 form of 2014, by the due date within May, and publish the form.
This is an example of financial transparency, the signed and audited financial statements of 2014 are published, they send, and publish, their 990 form by the due date within
May, and they state conflicts of interests within their forms.
Why should they?