Radical Inclusion, right? Smiles not frowns? We all want to be friends and be one big happy family together at home. And everyone wants me to shut up about this story, already.
We know there is loud, noisy stuff at Burning Man, and no-one’s calling for that to stop. Just, try to keep things appropriate for the time and the place.
So collectively the community has come up with a compromise that is totally within the rules, and works for everyone. It sounds good to me too.
The assumptions behind it are:
– the Dancetronauts were NOT banned in any way
– the only thing that happened was the Strip Ship was denied a Mutant Vehicle License for 2015
– Dancetronauts are totally welcome to still come to Burning Man
So, they could drive their street legal Strip Ship vehicle to Burning Man just as they do every year, join a camp in the 10 or 2 o’clock noisy zones, and throw as many parties as they want. Raise it up light it up turn it up!
This seems fair and reasonable to me. Something that works for everyone, so we can all be happy and get on with our lives, and trust that Dancetronaut’s Mutant Vehicle application for 2016 is approved.
What do you think about that, Burners? Should we make our voices heard and welcome the Dancetronauts back?
Burners are starting to seem as nothing but hateful old people, you really are becoming that generation who thinks the music sucks and your generation of music was better. Remember when YOUR parents and THOSE adults told you to turn it down? Don’t be those people, share in the love, share in the moment. Be kind to one another, you don’t want the dancetronauts? Be my guest go away to another location, it’s the truth. They’re there to spread love, music, and their own creativity. People were obviously there to enjoy the music and the culture; culture that was meant to allow everyone to express themselves in whatever way they want. If you don’t let them back you’re just as worse as the people who used to hate on rock n’ roll
Good this is grrrrrrrrrrrr8 news and find me some clarification on what really went down thank you for posting this it put my troubled mind at ease to know they will be there
Who says they are going to be there? This is just conjecture on the part of this blog. As were the other two, mostly just burnerxxx’s opinion.
You think all the pages and pages of evidence from burningman.com were just “conjecture”? Interesting theory.
Dancetronauts say they aren’t going to be there. They have accepted that they fucked up and don’t intend to challenge the ruling. They have no intention of bringing the car at all this year.
It’s an unregistered mutant vehicle, and would be forced to turn back or spend the week in D lot. I think most people know this would happen and Dancetronauts would play the victim card just to create drama. Maybe in 2016 guys?
I don’t think that’s fair to Dancetranauts who have accepted responsibility since this happened. Don’t blame them for what Burnersxxx has done in their name. I suspect you are right about what would happen and I expect that is why they wouldn’t try.
Don’t kill the messenger. Pooh Bear, are you a BORG-paid shill-troll?
Nope, just a burner who loves Burning Man and hasn’t grown cynical and believes cynicism is the disease of our time. You can’t kill the messenger when there is no message other than “org bad”.
“burners.me bad” is no less cynical than being anti-BORG.
I believe I’m responding to specific arguments. I have agreed with a few things.
‘Don’t kill the messenger. Pooh Bear, are you a BORG-paid shill-troll?’
Pooh Bear did not answer my prior query in regards of his volunteer labours for the BMOrg.
‘I do not understand the rationale as to why you do not like concierges in the manner of Festival Concierge Services. My belief is your labours for the BMOrg are in the manner I stated within my comment, you laboured for the BMOrg Outside Support Services purposed towards assisting the Plug and Play Camps of radical self reliance upon their cash to gain these numerous services, in addendum of your labours to gain donations, for the Project, from campers of this manner. What might be the difference from your labours for OSS, in the manner that might be termed a concierge, and the labours of Festival Concierge Services, of which they stated within their advertisement, other of they are not under the control of the BMOrg, and of that they made the most hideous error in regards of advertising their services?’
It must be awesome to labour from a Burning Man office, with air conditioning, on the playa.
I would think his liquor tab would be more extreme, all that drinking to let him ignore the BOrg’s NPD behavior.
I’m am a burner, nothing more. I don’t work for the org, on behalf of the org or know anyone in the org. I met Marisn once for 5 minutes. The fact you think anyone disagreeing with you must work for the org shows how paranoid you are and how warpped your perspective must be.
That is a most awesome non answer towards my query. I did not query you in regards might you, at present, work for the org, my query was in regards of might you have priorly worked for the org, within the manner, of which, I stated. In addendum, to answer my query with an attack, is a brilliant misdirection, Pooh Baer. As you know, the spelling is most intentional.
I don’t work for the org. I have never worked for the org. I have never worked for a concierge service or any organization that provides any service to anyone trying to avoid radical self reliance. I am just a Burner. You are just a cynical paranoid soul who believes anyone who disagrees with you must have ulterior motives. Even the subject of this article, Dancetranauts, disagrees with you. Are they shills? Get some help dude.
burnersxxx, please delete this^ post for libel ‘You are just a …’
Let’s keep it nice people. Pooh, just because you’re drunk, doesn’t mean you can start name calling.
After conversing with a mate, I am not a public person, nor might I desire to be a public person, the ‘You are a …’ comment was most horrible. People whom govern a city, in the manner of Black Rock City, are public people. And, yes, Pooh, we realize your wife is a lawyer.
Shooting the messenger, in this manner, and of the other manners of which you have done, is most deserving of you booted from this blog, and from the burners.me Facebook.
As Burnersxxx repeatedly point out, this is an opinion site. I gave my opinion. Just as it was you opinion that I am a shill for the org. Unless you are actually asserting that, which would mean you are impugning my honesty. Oh nooooo. BTW idiot. You use a pseudonym on this site, so who am I libeling? I don’t actually know any of you or who you actually are, so I can’t libel you genius. But just so we are clear everyone, it is only my opinion that this person I don’t know is paranoid based on the behavior I have observed. Any other statements I have said about him or her are opinions. Including the idea he or she is an idiot and a coward.
Also it is my opinion your mate is an idiot as well. It feels like you are getting upset because you have lost the argument. Sucks for you.
“…I don’t work of the org…”
Say it three times, and it will be true!
http://www.quotehd.com/imagequotes/TopAuthors/tmb/william-shakespeare-dramatist-the-lady-doth-protest-too-much.jpg
What a coward Nomad. You can’t win an argument so you lie about the motive of the person you are arguing with. Of course…that’s kinda your thing…Drink!
I did not lie. You simply answered ABP’s inquiry too many times for a simple denial. This suggests there is something behind your repeated protests. Perhaps you wish you worked for them? Maybe bring this up at your next therapy session.
“In rhetorical terms, the phrase can be thought of as indicating an unintentional apophasis—where the speaker who “protests too much” in favor of some assertion puts into others’ minds the idea that the assertion is false, something that they may not have considered before.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_lady_doth_protest_too_much,_methinks
Nobody wins an argument, Pooh. Haven’t you learned that yet?
Drink! Gonna be a good night.
You might also want to discuss your drinking, if only as a coping mechanism.
This might not be playing nice, but my belief remains is of Pooh Bear should be deleted from this blog. My belief is his purpose is to kill the messenger, and to kill threads which disagree with the BMOrg. He has made attempts to place me within default world legal troubles, falsely stating of that I intentionally lied on my prior cash out estimates, no, my cash out posts were estimates, made within good faith, based upon numerous links of their numbers, and of their statements, with requests for any whom might disagree to prove it incorrect, within the same manner. He has attempted to make me state things of which are most illegal to state, of they are unduly enriching themselves. He twists my words purposed for the appearance of meaning the opposite of what I have stated, and in regards of he does not follow the rules of normal civil discourse. I am not asking of him to be deleted, I am stating this soley in due of it is my belief of that he is most deserving of being deleted.
I do agree that there is a discrepancy right now between “time being wasted” and “value being added”. He has openly said that he is only commenting here to cause problems, and he doesn’t even bother to read the posts he criticizes.
Yes, my purpose here is the question the ludicris assertions and cynicism at the heart of Burners.me. I do read most of the articles I comment on, but not all of the ridiculously long ones. I’m amazingly on point nevertheless.
Burnersxxx…your move…
I’m sure if you apologize to ABP for your false allegations about him, we can all make nice and continue.
I believe I’ve already said anything I’ve said about AWarpedPerspective is clearly opinion. This seems to be the reason Burnerxxx gets to say whatever he wants about people, including calling them Satanists. My purpose isn’t to kill the messenger, it is to either change the messenger’s mind, or let people know the messenger isn’t necessarily delivering the whole message.
Nah. You mostly just let us know what does not agree with your group-think. Very good skill in a corporate shepherding environment. Counter productive in a creative environment.
Nomad, you’re just trying to kill the messenger who is trying to kill the messenger.
I don’t see Burners,me as creating anything. It is trying to destroy something that is creative.
This is equally stupid.
Ban pooh bear for having an opinion?
Holy hell.
Anyone is welcome to express their opinion here. Personal attacks and trolling are not welcome. Pooh has been guilty of both, based on his own public admissions of such.
It is also a street legal truck, and they can’t turn those away.
Lots of MVs are street legal before being mutated on playa. That said, I don’t know if it would or would not be put into D lot. Any Gate people willing to chime in?
Maybe another sound camp would adopt them, maybe not. After all, the sound camps are already doing their thing. Maybe setting up somewhere in open camping in the city and learning to keep it below 90 dB would be a learning experience for them, and to show them that plenty of people would show up even if they aren’t destroying eardrums in the process.
BTW, us oldsters are just trying to preserve what hearing we have left after too many rock concerts in our youth. You’ll wish you did too when you can’t understand conversation because of ambient noise. Yes I liked it loud. Still like it (or actually need it) loud. But not bleeding from my eardrums, bass gonna give me a heart attack loud.
When a fire engine goes past me on the street with the siren blaring, I cover my ears with my hands. When an art car at Burning Man is too loud, I walk further away from the speakers, or go somewhere else. Radical Self Reliance, an alien concept to the Safari Tourists but pretty basic stuff for most Burners.
The fire truck siren is a silly example. They only run the siren when they are moving and the disruption is only momentary, and is not elective but necessary for the public health and safety. None of these apply to a roving sound nuisance that could effectively shut down my interactive theme camp by loss of the ability to have a dialog with the participants. Everyone who wants to hear fire truck sirens should go to a fixed location where the sirens present no health or functional problem to everyone else who did not choose to hear them, and who expected to have a reasonable environment for their burn that did not include random and acute acoustic intrusion.
It’s worth pointing out (given the context of this discussion) that the Dancetronauts tow their Bass Station somewhere and then set up and play. As far as I know they don’t emit sound when they’re roving around. I could be wrong, but I’ve never heard that.
If they set up shop and started to make sound so as to disable my theme camp, my response would be the same. They would have me, in costume, “joining” their festivity with my siren bullhorn. Or better yet, I would promote my theme camp over our bullhorns. Yeah, that’s the ticket. Tap that resource for potential participants. Might have to lay in an extra supply of D cells, just in case.
BTW, we found these to be economical and effective at our last NC burn:
http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Pro-PMP30-Professional-Megaphone-Bullhorn/dp/B002PAZZIK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434891732&sr=8-1&keywords=bullhorn
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61YOx4Pj5fL._SL1000_.jpg
However, if roving acoustic disturbances were to be allowed or the norm in the theme camp portion of BRC, I would just pull out one of our camp bullhorns, and press the siren button, until the roving disturbance decided to “go somewhere else.” Broad frequency response with hours of high fidelity is expensive, heavy and requires a lot of power and energy. Not so when you just want to whomp out the sones at about 1KHz for a few minutes – four D cells and a cheap driver work surprisingly well.
From what I’ve heard, they play as they move around. Including in the city as they are coming to and leaving camp. This isn’t the issue, the issue is them blasting at other artists performances, where a burner has come to see/hear something that is not Dancetronauts.
I’m not a safari tourist, and lumping anyone that doesn’t want to have sound blasted at them is not a safari tourist. I’ve had two years where sound art cars were camped next to us. One year, the Ghetto Bus was probably instrumental in the sound restriction policies being put into place. They insisted on blasting in or out of camp, all hours of day or night, at a level that precluded us from being able to talk in camp without yelling in each other’s ears. Are we supposed to just pick up our placed theme camp & move? Not have our scheduled events?
Last year Disco Fish was next to us. Perfect neighbors, and in city or in open playa, didn’t feel the need to drown out everything around them.
“We all want to be friends and be one big happy family together at home.”
No, not really. BRC was never about PLUR, that overused heart hand-sign all the raver kids are always flashing, or anyone’s personal (and obviously hyper-fragile) “Burning Man Experience”. I thought it was about getting out in the middle of nowhere, away from the so-easily-offended General Public and having some REAL freedom for a week.
Radical Expression requires Radical Tolerance!
I heard that DJ yelling about his dumb CD release. It was out of place and I didn’t like it, but did I go running to First Camp asking to ban the Dancetronauts? NO. Everyone in BRC doesn’t like what everyone else is doing and everyone doesn’t HAVE TO like what everyone else is doing, but ban a whole camp because of one dipshit move made by one person? Really? Is that the kind of event we want to create for ourselves? Let’s ban Pink Heart because one person doesn’t wear pink fur. The Tuna Guys MUST GO because one person doesn’t eat tuna. Where does it end?
“…one big happy family together at home.” Nope. It looks more and more like we can barely fuckin’ TOLERATE each others PRESENCE.
I agree about the freedom, but time to start carrying around a bullhorn if decibels are freedom. We can call this the Decibels United case: anyone can be loud anywhere anytime, as long as you have the watts.
Well, decibels ARE freedom. What’s the alternative, the Shush Police? Oh wait…we already have them.
Decibels are not freedom. That is just stupid forum talk.
But it is true that decibels are wealth manifested in Burning Man sound camps and large sound vehicles. Since wealth is unlimited, especially at Burning Man, it goes with decibels.
For that reason decibels are limited by the Burning Man org.
While I agree with much of what you say, you are describing Ye Olde Burning Man 1.0 – one that I long for and love also. Today’s Burners are 40% likely to be there for the first time, 32% likely to be there for the second time, and only 28% likely to be there for the third or more time. Very few ever went to the event before 2012. At least, that’s what the survey says. If you know many Millenials, you’ll know they’re there for the peace and love, and not the Mad Max. Which is not to say they’re right, or that Burning Man should be made for them! “Too loud for Burning Man” is aimed more at the oldies and their guests like Denis and Grover I think. Pretty sure P.Diddy and Snoop Dogg didn’t think anything was too loud.
It’s not even really about being “too loud” though. Plugging a CD while playing music at any volume is no different than selling T-shirts, which can be done in complete silence.
And not all the Millenials are there for the “love and light”, I know a couple 2013 Burgin 20-somethings who were pretty disappointed to not find the Mad Max. The Burner Profiles and other BORG-trickery seems to be nothing more than Censorship Thru Population Control. 70 thousand Road Warriors can’t be nearly as easy to manage as the same number of Neo-Hippies, so might as well just weed out the Mad Max’ers at any age. To hell with the “quality” or “vibe” of the event if it’s going to sell out anyways. Jeez…am I an “oldie”??
Seeing The Root Society project their name on the video screen every 5 minutes showed me what a self promotional bacchanal this event has become – just a new inbred batch of brand names and logos – credentials for the resume in the “Default World” – with BMorg promoting it all as some sort of self-realization/transformation event, reeling in the politicians and the latest nouveau riche, because of course “Burning Man culture” will change the world.
(I live in Manhattan but I have a bridge that connects to Brooklyn that I will sell cheap so someone can bring it along with the 747 to the playa.)
I am no “oldie” [a 10 year “burner” who decided after 2014 that this event was not worth my time/creativity/money] but I do not subscribe to the myths of the original “Road Warriors” (yeah yeah I know “drive by shooting range”) but 70K of them would indeed too much resemble a Nascar event for me.
MrXander, you have described an irony that has only just crystallized for me: just as the BOrg are saying that they are now actively promoting the “Burning Man” …whatever… into the Default World, they are in fact importing the Default World to the NV burn and actively destroying the “Burning Man” magic. This should make for an interesting psychological study in a few years.
https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_iv/600/1011271.jpg
Well said! Well fucking said. Thank you!
Forgive my paranoia, but I do have a bit of concern that Burnersxxx is setting up a future false narative. It may be too late for Dancetranaurs to get placement this year and, considering their past antisocial behavior, it isn’t clear they would qualify. I’m afraid if they ask and are denied, Burnersxxx will use that as some sort of Org conspiracy rather than the consequences for previous actions, and I don’t think I can take the 67 page diatribe where he tries to prove it and compares Larry Harvey to Gegis Khan. Hopefully we aren’t going there, but I’m a bit gun shy.
They could park their vehicle at any camp that wanted them. I already know of some.
Glad I won’t be camped next to any of those camps.
I’m detecting a plan here. We’ll see how this works out. I’ll put a bookmark in this one.
Drink!
They obviously couldn’t just park their car at any placed camp, at least not if they are going to use the sound system. I understand it is an excellent system and would impact any neighborhood it went into. Therefore it would have to be accounted for in the placement application of the camp it was placed in and I think it is too late to do that. Nice try though.
Nope, not if they were at 10 & 2 and pointed towards Deep Playa. There are plenty of camps there with more power than the Dancetronauts rig. I think maybe what you’re missing is Burners like each other, are friends, and want to help each other. Burners who own giant art cars like this count many other Burners in similar situations as friends. All are friendly, happy, generous, and want to make Burning Man as awesome as they can.
All of them are forced to deal with BMOrg and all its foibles. Many are probably afraid that they’re next on somebody in the Org’s shitlist, for whatever minor violations they can come up with.
Not nope. Any camp that was placed would have to change their application to account for the Dancetronauts car. There would have to be a process for doing that and a camp who was willing to risk their placement to do it. If they wanted to bring the car but not use the sound system, that would probably fly. It provides a great view.
So camps applying for placement have their sound systems inspected now?
I assume placement analysis includes impact on the neighborhood. If you know different, please correct me. Like I’ve said, I don’t have a problem with Dancetronauts becoming a stationary dance place, I’m just not sure that’s a simple process and if doesn’t happen I wouldn’t want you using it as another reason to attack the org.
If you mean Genghis Khan, he was a much more direct kinda guy. Bad comparison.
yeah pretty sure I won’t be comparing Larry or anyone else in the Ruling Group to Genghis Khan any time soon. But, everyone should watch Marco Polo on Netflix, it’s rad.
OnCe you bring Nazis into it, who knows what you might say.
I didn’t bring Nazis into it. BMOrg did, when they created the position “Minister of Propaganda” – one of the very first things they did on the Playa, long before they even made their LLC. If it’s all fine because it’s just a joke, does that mean I can make holocaust jokes? Shall we have a gas chamber theme camp, because irony?
Put “Minister of Propaganda” into DuckDuckGo. Pretty hard to find anything that is not Nazi. Don’t use a term if you don’t expect people to consider the common usage.
A truly creative person can spell a word three or four different ways. 😈
I’d be fine with it as long as their sound is actually pointed to open playa and not impinging on art. It might be hard to get placement at this point.
Because you only had two options, I voted for NO.
As JV has outlined, and as I observed, they should be stationary, with their music pointed to the OPEN desert, and the people who choose to stand on axis to their speakers.
Really, people, look at the layout of BRC. Look at ALL the places you could point speakers to the open desert where no one else is unless they choose to be. You don’t need to circle the wagons. The injuns have their own place and are unlikely to attack.
The “Do Their Thing” part of YES implies they should be roving noise pollution. Not good.
Awww,,,, don’t let it end…. there is nothing better than bickering burners. I think its more fun than Burning Man itself. Now I have to wait until the next bullshitstorm
For far this one seems never-ending.
THE PEOPLE make BURNING MAN, not the BORG. And this is an overwhelming indication, that the people want and like Dancetronauts. But this poll now allows anyone who doesn’t like large sound camps, EDM music or how they look. Hardly about Dancetronauts at all.
It really doesn’t matter. Online polls aren’t scientific and are meaningless. From what I’ve gathered, people think Dancetronauts got what they deserved but are willing to forgive in the future. The EDM kids can have all the party they want as long as they responsibly share the playa.
Why does something being scientific have any bearing on Burning Man?
This should never have been about a crew (Dancetronauts), it only ever should have been about an art car (Strip Ship). Your comment – as drunken fool spokesman for the Borg – illustrates my point perfectly. The campaign has been against Dancetronauts, not their Mutant Vehicle. BMOrg asked Dancetronauts to take a year off, not the Strip Ship.
And look how quick so many have stepped up to fling more mud, in the face of a hundred apologies or more! This whole episode has revealed an ugly side of Burning Man. Some would say the ugly side is this site, how dare we have an opinion about anything! Many can think for themselves, check out who is providing the facts and evidence and who is pointing fingers and blame at others, and see the whole picture. BMOrg themselves are on a mission to create as many After Burners as they can, and doing quite well it seems.
Dancetronauts are just the awesome sparkly Unigoat! This is about Burners getting TOO OLD, which is why it’s TOO LOUD… and it’s all about personal opinions and dislike for the music or their appearance. These guys pissed off the founders and here you have it, because their ideals of what it SHOULD BE. Look at 80% of Burners and then look at the Dancetronauts… this crew SHAVES & SHOWERS! All the childish comments, assumptions and biases about these guys go against anything and anyone who considers or calls themselves a ‘Burner’ or this ‘radical inclusion’ experiment we are all a part of, sharing and learning from.
This is only discouraging more participants! WHICH IS WHAT BURNING MAN NEEDS AND WHAT MAKES THIS EVENT SO DAMN AMAZING!
Exactly. You said it better than I did.
Sound Erick like you don’t like Burning Man for what it is and what it has been and you want to turn it into some sort of “screw you, I do what I want” rave.
You are right…as long as you ignore everything I’ve said. Isn’t this the point where you invoke the Nazis?
I’ve been ignoring most of what you say for months now.
B.Me = consistently raising the bar for beating a dead horse.
Just trying to put the matter to rest, with some common ground.
as if you have the power to do anything about this issue…
You think this is about power? Interesting. Many others think this is just about rules.
Nope. Pretty much a power thing. Rules are a supporting detail.
Mom and dad are fighting…
What do you expect? They have an alcoholic son.
I say – put them adjacent to Kids Camp just to piss off the parents. But be sure, gents, to check ID. Just because she looks 18 and can suck a golfball through a garden hose doesn’t mean she’s not 14.
Honestly, I thought that this overall saga might have been blown out of proportion, simply because having your MV rejected isnt the same thing as “your crew is banned from the event”.
Every group who produces such amazing shows, theme camps, mutant vehicles, etc….they need a break every once in a while. Whether that is a hiatus or a time taken to “do something different”, there is something to be said for taking a year off from the heavy duty tasks that make good shows,artcars and camps.
Its unfortunate that the Dancetronauts cannot use their vehicle but as the article said, it doest stop them from being able to enjoy the Burning Man festival.
Depends on their definition of “enjoy.”
Is that Dancetronauts??? Turn it up!!!!
HAHAHA!! Seriously, that was funny.
I don’t think anyone was calling for them to be banned forever, nor was anyone who was aware that they simply got denied an MV license saying they should be shunned. In fact, many, myself included, wrote specifically that they should just re-tool their sound equipment for a stationary party. People would love it, it would be something different and maybe cause those who were bemoaning the lack of the same ol’ Dancetronauts MV to realize that expecting the same things to happen every year at Burning Man is missing the entire point of the event.
And I first read the post title as “Everyone’s a Weiner.”
Of course….
https://malialitman.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/you-may-already-be-a-weiner.jpg