BMOrg have created a new area for art cars with Level 3 sound systems called the Dance Music Zone (DMZ). A mile from The Man, between 10:30-11:15 & K. They will be setting up portapotties at each end of the DMZ – so, if you need the toilet at night, head towards the loudest sound system.
Of course, in typical propagandist fashion, they have to tell us that rules aren’t rules: they are giving new permissions, not creating new restrictions. They should just go full Yin/Yang, and create half the party as a music zone, and half the party as a yoga/TED talks/early to bed zone.
from DMV:
DANCE MUSIC ZONE (DMZ): LEVEL 3 SOUND MUTANT VEHICLE PARKING
———————————————————–
This year we are establishing a deep playa zone where level three mutant vehicles can park for more than 3 hours.
The zone will be 5,340 feet from The Man between the 10:30 and 11:15 clock positions with banks of toilets at each end. This distance out follows the arc of Kook Street. The length of the arc is 1,747 feet. Art placement will be modified to accommodate this zone.
The new experimental zone will allow for a longer stay, up to 12 hours as well as provide sanitary stations at this fixed site. The area is large enough for several level 3 sound vehicles to occupy the zone, where their speakers must be turned out and away from the city. The restriction no “encampments” still applies: no camping or setting up speakers or other type of structures on the ground. Of course leave no trace practices must continue. In this effort we are reacting to the rise of edge cases with a spirit of giving permission whilst supporting all aspects of the community, rather than creating new restrictions. We hope this experiment is successful in limiting the impact of deep playa gatherings on other members of the community including art installations, sound camps, the temple and other non-partying participants, and that it will additionally promote public safety and sanitation, while holding to our leave no trace principle.
[Update 7/19/15 2:15pm]
One question: who picks up the MOOP? The Burners, right…but if they don’t? Who’s gonna get the blame?
A consequence of this policy, is there will be no more major parties at art installations on the Inner Playa. No Embrace burn, no Control Tower white party. The Inner Playa is being made more of an EDM-free zone, like the city itself.
All the major mobile sound systems will just have to line up together, pointed away from Burning Man, and compete with each other. The idea of “music and big art being combined” seems to be downgraded by this move.
[Update 7/19/15 8:48pm]
Burner Karl has pointed out that this latest move from BMOrg comes only a few days after Opulent Temple – in response to being denied placement – published an update which mentioned they will throw their annual White Party on Inner Playa around 4 o’clock, near Marco Cochrane’s R-Evolution art piece.
[Update 7/20/15 1:15am]
Thanks to Captain Trips for this reminder. BMOrg’s latest move was suggested by Burners.Me in 2012:
http://burners.me/2012/02/11/burning-man-announces-new-sound-policy-for-art-cars
Why not just have an “Art Car Loud Noise Zone” on Deep Playa. Super-loud art cars are encouraged to go that way. If an art car offends the noise police and has to be punished, rather than taking away their right to drive, put them on the “Naughty Step” and make them stay in the Loud Noise Zone for 24 hours.
Just because you call yourselves “The DMV” doesn’t mean you have to act like The DMV.
[Update 7/20/15 10:42am]
Thanks to Burner Bart for creating this. A picture paints a thousand words!
Some Burners have expressed the view that the red text on the map above should also read “for more than 3 hours” – implying that Level 3 systems can play on the Inner Playa for less than 3 hours. BMOrg’s updated Mutant Vehicle Sound Policy shows these claims to be false and misleading. The only places that loud art cars can play loud music are the DMZ and next to the loud sound camps at 10 & 2.
Of course, the art cars are “allowed” elsewhere. They just can’t play their Level 3 systems at Level 3 volumes anywhere else.
[Update 7/20/15 3:50 pm]
Mobile sound stages will now be fixed in position, in the Dance Music area. This will make BM less like a music festival, where certain styles of music are playing at certain fixed areas. Ummm, what???
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So sound cars can park for up to 3 hours before having to move? Sounds like business as usual to me.
Welcome to Black Rock City! Shhhhhhh.
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Only thing I care about: can we please kill that robot-sex-noises vehicle that was driving around the deep playa?
NO! By the Tin Principle of Radical Inclusion, robot fornication MUST be allowed no matter the acoustic sacrifice.
…Now go off and enjoy your free nachos at the Taco Bell bus.
Moar rules! MOAR! I guess this is one way to remove the terrible risks of post burn depression huh Larry?
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Its funny that there are soo many restrictions put on music as if its a lesser form of art. If some cannot announce the art (music) they are performing, why is allowed and promoted for other to do so (sculptors and performing artist)? Doesnt seem to make sense to me. I think allot of this is attack on the sound camps is due to the increased high ranking government officials who are supposed to be present this year in the BLM VIP camp and that the BOrg wants to try and minimize the blatant drug use present around the litter box (2&10). The only benefit of this I see is adding more toilets for the party goers when there molly kicks in and they need to take a club dump NOW. In all seriousness though, I think that this war on EDM really just shows how upset the org is that the cacophony culture they created 25 years ago is merely becoming a bucket list event for party people and for most of the “participants” the litter box is clearly the main attraction. Fuck it, the people have spoken, let them have their beats and release their uncontrollable bowels all over the desert, its just fucking burning man, a pointless waste of time and resources for nothing.
Not a democracy. Not a music festival. Burning Man is a unique culture that has grown out of a specific context that excludes certain things. One of those thing is advertising. One of those things is paying artists to appear. One of those thing is not going to Burning Man to be a spectator at that show you really wanted to see. The Burners HAVE spoken. They don’t want Burning Man to be a rave or a music festival. EDM is great within the context Burning Man has already established. Your lack of a soul notwithstanding.
“…restrictions put on music as if its a lesser form of art…” No, it is one of the Performing Arts. However, if my Stravinsky Ballet Camp came to your dance camp and staged our version of Firebird in the middle of your event, preventing no one else from dancing, making them leave the area to dance as they wished, you might be disappointed.
If my Manganese Flare Camp decided to invade your dance camp with our flares, causing temporary if not permanent damage to your retinas, you might think we should have stayed at the trash fence where we belonged.
If my Bart’s Fart Camp set off our hydrogen sulfide experience upwind of your dance camp, you might not appreciate it as much as we did.
Sound is pervasive, even at less than the ear-damaging 90 dbA. At above established ambient levels, it occupies several of the senses and masks communications. It takes over our ability to hear other things, as well as causing a loss of eye-hand coordination, and other stresses to the nervous system. You should do what you want, but not where I want to do something else that your thing prevents my thing from happening. If we are both on the open playa, we can both move, but when you come to where I have camped, that’s not right.
Im not really sure how sound car parties on the playa are invading your camp? Or how it is ‘advertising’ for a music car to announce who will be performing on it or why anyone thinks DJ’s who are performing at camps are getting paid? Pretty sure these are just assupmtions people with bias against dance music make to validify their concerns that it has become the main attraction for many burners.
As someone who has personally built big art, is involved in non sound theme camps that provide services and interactivity to the community and who also loves music and likes to dance and experiences a dancefloor as an interactive, dynamic environment; I have a hard time understanding why everyone has so many damn fucks to give about how, when and where people are ‘allowed’ to dance!
Please go prank the big sound camps with your science farts if that is what compels you! And I think people would love it if you did your ballet to some minimal techno, that would be fantastic! Accept Burning Man for what it has become and stop trying to force it into being something it used to be. We all know already that it was always better last year…
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Wow, you’re jumping the shark with the half-truths, falsehoods, and innuendoes in this post. Being an effective critic requires a greater commitment to truth than your target. (e.g. Opulent Temple didn’t go mobile in response to being denied placement – they were denied placement in response to their decision to go mobile).
This is from OT’s post dated July 13, after they were denied placement:
If you read the entire post, it seems to me that they wrote it to address their community after being denied placement. YMMV, but this is hardly a falsehood. You imply there are “half-truths, falsehoods, and innuendoes in this post”, but you can’t point any of them out. So it’s you who is spreading the falsehoods.
Oh dude, I thought this was put to bed already. It’s clear that OT decided to go mobile and THEN they were denied placement. The fact that whoever wrote that post on the OT site decided to word it so that it seemed as if the BMORG was forcing them to go mobile does not make it so. You ran with that wording, turned out to not be the case, so the least you can do is say “oops” or SOMETHING.
This is nothing to do with being mobile, and everything to do with the White Party being on the Inner Playa next to a major art piece (like last year’s Embrace party).
Not to worry, those guys are already losing their hearing. But their black girlfriends might be complaining.
http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/statistics/Documents/nihl-adults.png
“This chart depicts the prevalence of likely noise-induced hearing loss from 2 time periods in adults (20–69 years) by race/ethnicity and sex (gender).”
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Trilo over at eplaya passes along more official info (https://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=74372):
SOUND POLICY
Mutant Vehicle sound systems are classified into three levels.
Level 1: Normal car stereo / average living room (under 90 dB at a distance of 30 feet from the speaker)
Level 2: Dance club or theatre (90 dB and up at a distance of less than 100 feet)
Level 3: Large dance club, arena, or stadium (100+ dB at a distance of 100+ feet)
(Note: All decibel levels refer to maximum potential dBA.)
The dB levels here are intended as guidelines. What is important is the impact your vehicle’s sound has on your surroundings.
Vehicles with Level 1 systems may play anywhere in Black Rock City, but must be mindful of your volume and surroundings, especially in quieter areas of the City or late at night.
Vehicles with Level 2 systems may only play at high volume on the open playa (not on or pointing right into the city streets) and must be mindful of where you are playing and turn it down when appropriate — e.g. around art pieces, burns, etc.
Vehicles with Level 3 systems may ONLY play at high volume by the Large Scale Sound Camps on the 2:00 and 10:00 sides of the City, with speakers pointing out to the deep playa.
If you get more than two warnings about your sound system, you may lose your Mutant Vehicle license and the right to drive your vehicle for the rest of the event.
DANCE MUSIC ZONE (DMZ): LEVL 3 SOUND MUTANT VEHICLE PARKING
This year we are establishing a deep playa zone where level three mutant vehicles can park for more than 3 hours. The zone will be 5,340 feet from The Man between the 10:30 and 11:15 clock positions with banks of toilets at each end. This distance out follows the arc of Kook Street. The length of the arc is 1,747 feet. Art placement will be modified to accommodate this zone.
The new experimental zone will allow for a longer stay, up to 12 hours as well as provide sanitary stations at this fixed site. The area is large enough for several level 3 sound vehicles to occupy the zone, where their speakers must be turned out and away from the city. The restriction no “encampments” still applies: no camping or setting up speakers or other type of structures on the ground. Of course leave no trace practices must continue.
In this effort we are reacting to the rise of edge cases with a spirit of giving permission whilst supporting all aspects of the community, rather than creating new restrictions.
We hope this experiment is successful in limiting the impact of deep playa gatherings on other members of the community including art installations, sound camps, the temple and other non-partying participants, and that it will additionally promote public safety and sanitation, while holding to our leave no trace principle.
The rest of the thread has good points about this policy being a result of the recent stipulations from the BLM.
From the wording here, it seems sound cars can play at level 2 volume anywhere on the open playa with speakers pointing away from the city, and must be mindful of their surroundings. As I stated before, level 3 decibels weren’t even possible until maybe 5 years ago, at the most, and there were plenty of awesome mobile dance parties before then.
The only new restrictions in this policy are that level 2 cars must face speakers away from the city, that level 3 decibels can only happen at 2 and 10 near the large sound camps, and that level 3 decibel parties of more than 3 hours must happen at the DMZ.
Level 2 parties, not matter how long, can happen anywhere on the deep playa at any time with speakers faced away from the city. Seems reasonable to me.
So basically Bart’s map and comments are correct. It just needs to somehow highlight the 10 and 2 areas near the sound camps, in addition to the Dance Music Zone.
No, Bart’s map isn’t correct. Sounds cars, even level 3 cars, can play at level 2 volume anywhere on the open playa, with speakers pointed away from the city. That is hardly “the only place where loud sound cars will be allowed at Burning Man 2015.”
Loud sound cars are not allowed to play at loud volume anywhere except the DMZ and 10 & 2. FACT.
Is 90db at 100ft not loud? That seems loud to me. Sound cars playing 100+ db are not allowed to play except the DMZ and 10 & 2. Those cars can turn down a bit and play anywhere.
thanks, I’ve posted this separately
Being a sound guy, 90-100 dBA at 100 feet is still pretty damn loud . Be thankful they are not limiting in dBC. The weighting on dBA is actually quite favorable to the EDM crowd that enjoys gut warping ground shaking bass. On the dBA weighting chart bass frequencies are pretty much off the chart. Personally, I like the 90-100 dBA range because it may help keep overzealous system operators from driving things into distortion and causing ear fatigue. This will promote quality sound in the long run. Even at 90 dBA at 100 feet you can still reshape reality with mind boggling bass. dBA weighting focuses more on the middle range where our ears are more sensitive to damage. The whole point of the dBA weighting is to address noise exposure and exposure damage to the human ear. Personally I find systems that are so loud my ears hurt offensive, but I freaking LOVE my sub bass. YOu’ll still find plenty of thump in the 90-100 dBA range folks.
Also keep in mind that the dB measurement is exponential, so the range between 90 and 100 dBA is actually a rather wide spectrum of volume level in which to play.
Actually, limiting to 90 dBC might very well solve the problem. Knocking the level down 20 or 30 dB would do the trick! 🙂
http://www.noisehelp.com/images/decibel-scale-1.gif
As long as we get the sub bass, that’s good enough for me. Thanks Bryan!
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Yes we are becoming a huge city and things are changing, but I would really encourage the BMO to pose this idea of a “experimental dance music zone” to the community and ask for their ideas of different possibilities to solve this problem for both sides. Once a number of solutions have been created those solutions should be voted on by the people.
“…pose this idea… ask for their ideas of different possibilities to solve this problem… Once a number of solutions have been created those solutions should be voted on by the people.”
That’s a good idea, but when has the BOrg EVER done anything like that? If they have, then let’s follow that same path. But to my understanding, an objective and comprehensive engagement of the burners, let alone a vote, has never been done by the BOrg.
But you are right as to process. One stone soup organization I am a member of has the volunteer committee who are dealing with the issue propose a draft policy, then ALL the members are allowed to discuss it in an online forum (very much like this), then the committee prepares a final policy statement, then the members vote on it. If there are branch points, it can be in the draft policy for discussion.
Oh, and you know what most of the things are that we do this with this way? Changes to the bylaws. Because the organization realizes that it is it’s volunteer members, no matter who may be paid. The organization ONLY exists because of the volunteers, and they MUST be enfranchised for the organization to thrive. No, it’s not a pass/fail situation, it is a succeed/deteriorate situation. That’s where the BOrg is now.
The current state of affairs suggests the current BMP BoD is sub-competent to deal with the task at hand. Does any of them have experience running an operation where the expertise and effort resides in an unpaid work force? Have they even been in such a work force, where there is simply no go-public/by-out end-game? Q.E.D.
Just to be clear how the upstream of this process works, the members elect the president, the BoD, and the committee chairs, in a contested election, with 2 or more real candidates for each position – ALL UNPAID VOLUNTEERS. The members can then petition the committees or BoD for action, or the BoD and committees can propose actions. The committees then seek input from the members to prepare a draft action plan or policy, and then the process picks up as I described above. It’s been working fine like that for decades, with discussion at meetings replaced with discussion online.
In this case, the PMP/BRC BoD would appoint a *volunteer* burner committee chair, who would then solicit burners to join the committee. (In future iterations, the chair would be elected by the members.) The committee candidate members would be publicly vetted, with their qualifications. The chair would then select the committee members, or there would be a vote of the membership.
I am sure the whole “voting” thing is easily discounted by the BOrg as unfeasible or impractical. That’s silly. You can start with taking votes from burners who had bought a certain number of consecutive tickets, say start with 10 years. These can be easily found using the email addresses used to mail the tickets. (And if the BOrg are sufficiently incompetent to have those records, then ask burners to submit their ticket receipt emails so the BOrg can reconstitute the that data.) You then invite those qualified to join a new “profile” thing for voting burners, and use that system to tally votes. You can also add qualification points/years for those who have done official theme camps, DVs or art installations. But this voter selection process should be publicly vetted for comment, NOT like the hidden decision to offer ticket codes or DS tix. The voting burner criteria should be clear so people can know what they might do to join the ranks. And guess what! The criteria could be changed later through the committee/draft/discussion/final/vote process.
And what about the paid staff? They work for the president, BoD and committees to get the work done. But remember, the president, BoD and committees are ALL VOLUNTEER, and ultimately serve at the pleasure of the burners.
The DMZ is their best response to the EDM problem. If it doesn’t work or is problematic, they’ll tweak it next year. To go to the trouble and time to put new ideas to a vote will ensure everything dies a slow death and never happens.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting a change for 2015. But for 2016, a committee could be formed NOW to evaluate 2015 and propose any necessary changes. The process would be for the BOrg management to take the concern to the committee, and for the committee to address it much as Jabarsky has outlined.
This is the way the event can reflect the knowledge and interests of those who make the event, rather than those who collect the money (from those who make the event).
I think the notion of a sound car committee to work all this out in a manner that appeases most of the people sounds nice, but is unrealistic and unworkable. They’ll just become one more group that the conspiracy theorists here criticize.
If they make good decisions, they won’t be criticized.
This is a good decision and it’s being criticized.
That won’t happen if the burners are properly enfranchised, and the committee selection and deliberations are transparent. That’s how this ALL should work to keep people from leaving the event, or deciding to no longer contribute but just follow the crowd to spectate (and dance).
Sorry Nomad, but I read that a couple of times and am not sure what you’re saying.
“This is a good decision and it’s being criticized.” EVERYTHING the Borg does that is concealed and secret, then issued as a perfect edict, will be criticized, because of the lack of transparency and enfranchisement. There was no draft proposal and discussion. As long as the BOrg makes edicts, even as “experiments,” it presumes that they know all, and the burners have to just like it or lump it. That does NOT make people want to take their time to gift to the event.
If they had publicly outlined the problem, and openly solicited solutions, there would be far less resistance, if only because the burners would feel they had been heard. As it is now, the BOrg sits on Mt Olympus, encouraging burners to try to work their way into the process. Pure NPD management.
It would be different if the BOrg funded the event, and the burners were paid workers. Hell, “The man with the gold, makes the rules.” But in this case, like my other volunteer organizations, it’s the members that have the gold. It’s already slipping away. If they don’t watch it, as they well know as this last edict suggests, the NV burn will turn into an EDM festival with a few art installations.
They are losing Burning Man. Unless they take dramatic efforts to enfranchise the burners instead of the moopers, it is already lost.
“If they make good decisions, they won’t be criticized.”
No, actually ALL decisions made in secret will be criticized, and I have no doubt that is their rationale that lets them discount ALL criticism. Like me, many of us here LIKE this, and think it IS a GOOD DECISION. (I think the 3-hour thing is silly – they should simply be proscribed from sound-polluting BRC and the theme camps, and ANYONE making noise levels that prevent BRC camps from doing their thing should be attenuated or shut down.) We are griping about process, not this “experiment.”
Got it, thanks for clarifying. I disagree, but I also understand the point you’re making. I just don’t see it that way
“We are griping about process, not this “experiment.””
Seems to me like most people who are griping are griping about the policy itself. Putting everything up for a vote is a recipe for clusterfuck and stagnation. The BMORG put the feelers out, they got some input from both sides, and decided on this actually very mild policy. I mean seriously, there aren’t that many level 3 cars to begin with, and they can still blast away at any time of the day or night anywhere on the open playa for up to 3 hours in one place. That’s about as tepid a policy as I can think of.
But is that the policy? Level 3 cars can blast their music anywhere, just not for more than 3 hours? You say that, Kevin seems to think that, I’m not so sure.
It’s very hard to tell. Whether you’re a cynic like me, or an optimist like Halcyon, it doesn’t matter – we’re all put in the position of trying to interpret “but what did BMOrg really mean”. Voting or not, simple transparency would go a long way. It’s Burning Man, not DARPA.
Nix on the DARPA. I would hate to have to call in a drone strike on all of you. 🙁
You’re right, the DMV wording could be more explicit. But how about a post featuring the DMV email and then something like:
“The wording here is unclear, it could mean sound cars are solely relegated to the DMZ, or just those that want to stage a party lasting longer than 3 hours. What do you think, readers? And if a member of the DMV is reading, please feel free to clarify either in the comments or email me. I’ll update the post as verified information comes in.”
Seriously man, that’s all that warranted here. Your hysterical tone and updates based on unverified information only harm the legitimacy of what you’re doing. It’s awesome you got that DMV email published, it’s the first I’d heard of it. But the rest of the post is disappointing.
The pejorative and unclear “policy” is exactly what can be addressed through public comment on a draft. The Borg is playing darts blindfolded, with a spotter calling in the darts. Stupid.
They could do that I suppose. Maybe there would be enough time for public input, analysis of that input, decision making, and implementation of the policy. Maybe time shouldn’t’ be a factor? That’s one way of looking at it. Maybe these decisions should be dragged out over a period of years before implementation? I don’t think that’s workable.
In a modern context, the “meetings,” per se, would be by phone or on the net. They would rarely be in person. Things can happen quickly as needed. Member comment can also be announced with a time limit. Also – and this is important – anyone can comment, but only the qualified voting burners can cast votes. That prevents a shifting popular tide from making things too fluid. You make your arguments, and then appeal to the voting members you know. Of course the voting burners can remain anonymous in that context, if they desire. However, the criteria for who is a voting burner should be clear.
Initially, I would suggest that the “voting burners” be those with 10 years of attendance, with explicit participation in a placed theme camp, art car or art installation counting as an additional year. For example, I would not meet the criteria. The quickest voting path would be to attend 5 burns and do a camp/car/art at each, which would not be easy. Doing camp + car, or car + art, or camp + car + art still only counts as “1” year.
But who the voting burners are can be debated and changed through the process I outlined.
JV, please explain where in this post you see a hysterical tone. I stand by all of the updates, nobody has shown them to be false yet. Just a little more detail missing on the map about 10 & 2.
I mentioned it in another comment, but here it is again:
The slant:
“A consequence of this policy, is there will be no more major parties at art installations on the Inner Playa. No Embrace burn, no Control Tower white party. The Inner Playa is being made more of an EDM-free zone, like the city itself.”
False statements. As was mentioned by many commenters here, and confirmed with Trilo’s post over at eplaya, dance parties at level 2 decibels can happen anytime and anywhere on the open playa with speakers faced away from the city.
The slant:
“All the major mobile sound systems will just have to line up together, pointed away from Burning Man, and compete with each other. The idea of “music and big art being combined” seems to be downgraded by this move.”
False again. As was suggested by many commenters here and confirmed with Trilo’s post, sound cars can set up and crank music at level 2 decibels any time and anywhere on the open playa with speakers faced away from the city.
Are you saying those 2 paragraphs, which make up the bulk of your writing on this post, aren’t slanted in any way?
Yes I am. What is the slant? I am stating facts.
OK let’s clarify terms. “Major” dance parties can ONLY be at level 3 volume? OK, then your statements are correct. However, that’s pretty subjective and also splitting hairs. So here’s what you’re sad about, to be clear:
You’re sad that sounds cars pumping out 100+ db at 100ft will no longer be allowed to play anywhere and anytime they want at those levels, and instead you’ll have to head over to 2 or 10 or the newly created DMZ.
I’m not sad about anything. And it is you who’s splitting the hairs.
No, you! Ha.
OK you’re not sad, but you disagree with the policy that sounds cars pumping out 100+ db at 100ft will no longer be allowed to play anywhere and anytime they want at those levels, and instead have to head over to 2 or 10 or the newly created DMZ, or else turn down to level 2 volume, which is 90-100 db at 100ft? Is that a fair statement?
I disagree with this whole war on EDM. Radical inclusion means ravers too. Most of the people dancing at burning man are awesome Burners who don’t MOOP. The anti-raver sentiment is very disappointing. I’m not sure that this ghettoization of dance music is going to make burning man better. Level 3 art cars should be allowed to do their thing where they want in deep playa. It is a shame to lose epic parties like the Control Tower and Embrace just because a bunch of old people don’t like the noise. It used to be that there were dance music zones all through the city. They got pushed to the fringes , and now the big art car systems are being pushed even further away. What’s next, level 3 only at the trash fence?
I was once in the middle of an argument like this at that volunteer organization. They said, “Well then why don’t you chair the damn committee!” I said, “Sure.” Bad decision. Lots of work.
And for Burnersxxx…. I WAS ONCE IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ARGUMENT LIKE THIS AT THAT VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATION. THEY SAID, “WELL THEN WHY DON’T YOU CHAIR THE DAMN COMMITTEE!” I SAID, “SURE.” BAD DECISION. LOTS OF WORK.
“Most of the people dancing at burning man are awesome Burners who don’t MOOP.”
Of course, but apparently there is a MOOP problem on the “dancefloors” of mobile sound cars, so whether that’s a small minority or “ravers” is irrelevant. And again, section 7 of that damn BLM letter absolutely mentions issues directly related to mobile dance parties. The BLM stated all 20 issues raised in that letter must be addressed before they will issue the event permit. The BMORG had to do SOMETHING, and so the DMZ with extra porta potties. It’s a reasonable response to the BLM letter, and we’ll see how it works. Do you agree or disagree that the BMORG had to do something in response to the BLM letter and the requirement to comply before receiving a permit?
Of course they had to do something to respond to the BLM concerns. More portapotties are long over due. Robot heart is getting crowds of 15,000+ now . I haven’t heard about MOOP problems with any other level 3 art cars.
15,000+ people at Robot Heart? Jesus. I haven’t been since 2012, so things have obviously grown exponentially since then, which makes me believe this new policy is even more needed. I can remember in 2011 stumbling upon Robot Heart waaay out in deep playa late at night. Maybe 100 people. Absolutely not playing at level 3 volume. I stayed for hours because it was the best dance music I’d ever heard on the playa, or anywhere else, really. That kind of serendipity can still happen with this new policy. In fact, it gives smaller sound cars an opportunity to shine. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.
“The DMZ is their best response to the EDM problem. If it doesn’t work or is problematic, they’ll tweak it next year. To go to the trouble and time to put new ideas to a vote will ensure everything dies a slow death and never happens.”
Yes and yes.
Direct democracy for Burning Man sounds like a great idea, but in the end it would be disastrous. You would end up with a homogenized mess with hundreds of principles and rules. What the participants provide is content, what the org provides is context. It’s sort of like an improve group. When you are performing, you get to do whatever you want, within the context provided for the scene. So if I’m given the instruction I am a Russian immigrant trying to buy a bathing suit, the scene can go in any direction, but I can’t legitimately use a Southern accent. A weird example, but I think it works.
Burning Man is a little (or perhaps huge) social improvisation. The org provides the context. We have a gifting culture. The participants are expected to create and share that creation with the community without compensation (so paid DJs violate that context). You are expected to be self-reliant and respectful of fellow Burners. You are expected to stretch or break out of your comfort zone.
In order for the improvisation to be meaningful and the social experiment to generate genuine culture, the context has to be fairly sharply defined an understandable to the whole. We live in a world where culture is endlessly fragmented. Disco was annoying and pervasive in its day, but there weren’t dozens of subgenres dividing people into smaller and smaller groups. Love it or hate it, we all had disco in common. A particular culture is what grows out of a particular context. When Larry identified the 10 principles he wasn’t making something up, he was identifying the culture that had grown out of the context of Burning Man up to that point. And the org looked upon the creation and said “it is good”. The adjustments the org have made over the years have been made to strengthen the context, so the culture can thrive. Not any culture that happens to arise from the desires of thousands of people with different agendas, but this specific culture that has grown from this specific context. If you want something different, come up with your own context and start your own event.
Democracies don’t produce sharply defined contexts. As has been historically said “Democracy is the worst system of all, except for all the others”. It is messy and inefficient. In its current form it is divisive and fragmenting. I still think it is the best way to run a country, just a terrible way of producing an event like Burning Man.
I am a member of two volunteer/crowd-sourced organizations that operate as I outlined. They have been successful for decades and have flourished.
Can you cite any volunteer/crowd-sourced organizations, where the content-providers are not paid, where what you suggest has worked?
“Can you cite any volunteer/crowd-sourced organizations, where the content-providers are not paid, where what you suggest has worked?”
Just one. Burning Man.
That is the context the founders and org setup. It is unique. The fact that it is unique is what makes it valuable. It provides another way of looking at how we relate to each other. Without the mitigating factor of commerce. Just pure gifting. It fills a desire many Burners have for an authentic relationship with creativity, culture, and community. If the org were pulling down billions of dollars a year and could afford to pay participants for their participation, it would utterly ruin what Burning Man is. When the org asks me to contribute from my heart without regard to compensation, I feel honored and respected. If they offered me money for my participation, I would feel insulted.
I think you feel taken advantage of. That’s cool. That’s honest. Perhaps this experience isn’t for you. Perhaps you don’t relate to it. Perhaps you don’t need it. Not a problem, there are lots of events out there or you can start your own. Which it sounds like you have and it seems to work for you. That is a different context and a different culture. Good for you. It isn’t Burning Man.
I can cite dozens of examples where the content provider is compensated. It’s common. It’s everyday. Why would I want that?
On a smaller scale and less formal, what I outlined in what Transformus does. And Transformus is VERY successful. They discuss their actions on FB and on their site. No one is paid. It is what the NV burn was 10 years ago.
The NV burn does not work, as evidenced by the problems and all their unfulfilled promises while the operating overhead (and profit) has expanded 20-fold when the attendance only grew by a factor of three. Anyone with a good MBA would tell you that if your operation is expanding with an overwhelming disproportionate increase in overhead, management is at fault. Right now, they are only moving forward on momentum and public interest, not on content. Can you cite how the NV burn content has grown three-fold with the three-fold increase in ticketing over the past 10 years?
A good operation will become better as it grows, not just bigger with no material increase in content. The NV burn is Wile E Coyote….and I think the BOrg know it.
https://uncomelyandbroken.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/wile-e-coyote.gif
“Anyone with a good MBA would tell you that if your operation is expanding with an overwhelming disproportionate increase in overhead, management is at fault.” It might surprise you to know that many Burners would suggest that people with “good MBAs” are the problem. They see everything in the context of money and economic growth.
There are other ways to see things. Some value authenticity and connection over money. The founders definitely aren’t educated business folks. They are counter-culture warriors and artists. Not the folks you would hire to do your taxes. That’s why things get messy sometimes and mistakes happen. But I’d rather have a semi-chaotic event planned by them than a program analyses to provide maximum profit and efficiency. A good MBA would not place an event in the middle of a desert that is constantly trying to kill you, but the founders saw it as a place where transformation can occur.
If you think the org doesn’t respond to the community, you aren’t paying attention. They monitor all of these forums. They deliberately don’t respond directly by jumping into the argument, but they respond with action.They’ve changed the rules for placed camps this year based on Burner input. They have responded to complaints of how the EDM community is interacting with the culture. They control the context of the event, but that doesn’t mean they don’t listen.
“It might surprise you to know that many Burners would suggest that people with “good MBAs” are the problem. They see everything in the context of money and economic growth.”
Apparently you don’t know people with a good MBA – you are referring to hedge fund managers and bean-counters. A good MBA program studies applied psychology, down to non-verbal communications in various cultures, and allows the graduate to analyze organizational operations based on clear psychological studies. Your MBA arguments are a canard to the point. Waste is waste.
The BOrg might be listening, but they are not interacting. They are mismanaging the event and their own operations. The proof is in their imprecise and ham-handed actions, They are losing the event, the Burning Man that got all the attention. When it collapses, it event will still be there, but it won’t be pretty. Theft, moop, arrests, and injuries are all evidence that they no longer get the old-school burners – people who knew the Tin Principles before they read them. Now they are getting spectators and ravers that are eclipsing the old Burning Man. And it is the BOrg that is entirely at fault.
“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” – Albert Einstein
They need to up their game. Ten years ago, the burners came and made the event, and the $1 million of overhead activity just let them come. Ever since the sellout, they have laid their heavy $20 million hand on ticketing and have royally screwed it up.
“On a smaller scale and less formal, what I outlined in what Transformus does. And Transformus is VERY successful. They discuss their actions on FB and on their site. No one is paid. It is what the NV burn was 10 years ago.”
More like 15 years, at least. Transformus seems cool, but the pure scale of Burning Man at this point wouldn’t support that kind of structure. Someone needs to make decisions and handle logistics without putting every move to a committee. There simply wouldn’t be enough time in the day and still be able to get all the ducks in a row needed just to strike the first piece of rebar.
Actually, one of my volunteer organizations is larger than the NV burn, and they meet twice a year. That structure works for them. Otherwise, they would have deteriorated into what is actually an allied organization which is explicitly commercial. The two of them are a good example of what happens when the theme is commercial interests vs. volunteers contributing to the common good. What the commercial organization can get done is a mere shadow and often explicit copies of what the volunteer organization does.
I can see where the NV burn is going, and it’s not good.
“Someone needs to make decisions and handle logistics without putting every move to a committee. There simply wouldn’t be enough time in the day and still be able to get all the ducks in a row needed just to strike the first piece of rebar.”
Nope. That is handled by the paid staff, which is how it differs from Transformus. The volunteer committees set policy that the staff follow. All is open, and the volunteers know all decisions and staff actions. It’s all above-board. Their only failing is when they start making undisclosed decisions – which the volunteers can call them on. And in certain areas, where they do that, they lose support of the better volunteers. And that gap is filled with “volunteers” from that allied commercial organization, people whose participation is paid by their companies, The result is not pretty, and ultimately has serious legal implications. The commercial interests are always there, looking for a way to co-op the efforts of the volunteers. But they ultimately get caught.
What you describe here in your latest comment seems workable to me, in that there is a volunteer board of directors, so to speak, that set broad policy and then a paid staff to handle logistics. This is different than putting everything up for a vote. The volunteer board would still be making decisions based on community input, which would be transparent. What form that transparency is communicated in, I don’t know, maybe meeting minutes of something. Of course, that would do absolutely nothing to quell people from bitching about a decision they agreed with. ‘
But you know, I don’t see that as any different than the current BMORG structure. They did, in fact, ask for and receive input, and made a decision. They could be more transparent in their process, absolutely. So I think I agree with you here, as long as you’re saying not everything should be brought up for a vote from the community at large.
If you read what I posted, the volunteer BoD, or cognizant volunteer committee, deal with issues that arise, and draft policy as necessary. Then that draft is released for public comment. The BoD/committee then revises the draft, and put out a final version for a vote. The adopted policy is then implemented by the paid staff. To break up the work, you would evolve several committees, with rotating volunteers to manage their subject topic. Not all items need a vote, but the committee, representing the burners, deals with the issues transparently.
All meeting minutes are public, and all actions must be tracked back to meeting minutes. There must be that thread for things to happen. Hence, the meeting minutes tell you what’s going on. The minutes also tell you who should not continue on the committee. You also have the responsibilities rotate, typically secretary becomes vice-chair and then chair.
The burners can also petition the BoD to change committee members, but all committee members should stand for election at least every 2 years. You know who is doing what from the minutes, and you can nominate new committee members.
It is a proven system based on the need to keep the volunteers motivated, involved and gifting their time and effort.
That sounds like Kafka on steroids.
There is a difference between “only allowed here” and “can stay here for more than 3 hours.” Sounds to me that everything will continue as it was. But now there is an experiment where the big sound cars are encouraged to throw all-night events in a specific area.
I’m all for experiments to ease to the Rave-ify-ing of Burning Man, if you ask me.
I love that Burners.me breaks so many relevant stories. I appreciate Burners.me. But it has such a dusty chip on it’s shoulder when it comes to the BORG. I wish we could look at the “why” of each BMORG step so we could explore the problems being solved – not see actions as just punishments, bannings, power trips or money grabs.
That being said the BMORG does terrible job at transparency and communication – so they pretty much leave the “story” up to you.
FYI: I talked it about it all this on my podcast today and said about you, “I enjoy (Burners.me) tremendously… but I get frustrated by the tone.” 🙂
If you’d rather listen than watch, its avail as itunes podcast: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hug-nation/id996555148
“But it has such a dusty chip on it’s shoulder when it comes to the BORG… not see actions as just punishments, bannings, power trips or money grabs.”
“That being said the BMORG does terrible job at transparency and communication – so they pretty much leave the “story” up to you.”
John, you pretty well answered your own question. It’s HS psychology, cognitive dissonance. You can’t ask us to paint a picture with red, green and blue, and not give us the blue paint. It is expected that the red and green will get in the areas that should be blue. It’s actually healthy to suspect the long-promised and still-missing information is negative and not positive. To think that information that is withheld is only random or overlooked is a sign of unhealthy and missing critical thinking skills.
That you and others turn here for “news” shows the effort Burnersxxx puts into this blog. But it is a blog. To expect it to follow journalism standards and fact-checking before writing a single word is a serious misunderstanding of what a blog is. This is NOT Wikipedia or a publication of record. It’s a blog.
You know what the BOrg could do to improve the situation? Start publishing the promised information, and be forthright without spins. We can all work together when there is not the agenda to misrepresent and manipulate. But also, to work together, the BOrg has to face what has always been it’s greatest challenge: enfranchise the burners, the people who make the event. There are many models and many precedents, but top-down management of a stone soup activity always defeats the purpose of the event. Always.
Except in the case of Burning Man where it has worked just fine as evidenced by the vast majority of Burners who love the event as is.
I appreciate your diplomatic tone, but I don’t think any level of transparency would be enough. Burners.me has an ax to grind and he is going to spin any information he gets to support his vision of Burning Man regardless.
Halcyon, I adore you brother. You always say what I’m feeling, but in a much better way. You’ve summed up this issue, problems with this board/blog and Burning Man so gracefully. Thank you. If I see you on the playa, I’m giving you big hug
🙂 I’l look forward to that. Thank you.
Me as well. You’re a person I admire for the humble and graceful way you’ve addressed issues now and in the past and I feel like you’re one of those people that keep the spirit of Burning Man year round. Cheers to you.
Thanks for the shout-out Halcyon, but I really can’t see anything slanted or negative in this post at all – other than the “propagandist” criticism, which is totally warranted. They do employ a Minister of Propaganda.
If you just wanted to pass the info along without slant or negative connotation you need say nothing more than this:
BMOrg have created a new area for art cars with Level 3 sound systems called the Dance Music Zone (DMZ). A mile from The Man, between 10:30-11:15 & K. They will be setting up portapotties at each end of the DMZ – so, if you need the toilet at night, head towards the loudest sound system.
Done.
Right. But instead I pasted the complete text of the DMV announcement, without editing.
So the DMV wrote this?
“Of course, in typical propagandist fashion, they have to tell us that rules aren’t rules: they are giving new permissions, not creating new restrictions. They should just go full Yin/Yang, and create half the party as a music zone, and half the party as a yoga/TED talks/early to bed zone.”
And this? “A consequence of this policy, is there will be no more major parties at art installations on the Inner Playa. No Embrace burn, no Control Tower white party. The Inner Playa is being made more of an EDM-free zone, like the city itself.
All the major mobile sound systems will just have to line up together, pointed away from Burning Man, and compete with each other. The idea of “music and big art being combined” seems to be downgraded by this move.”
This too? “Mobile sound stages will now be fixed in position, in the Dance Music area. This will make BM less like a music festival, where certain styles of music are playing at certain fixed areas. Ummm, what???”
And I’m assuming the DMV incorrectly said, “The ONLY place loud sound cars will be allowed at Burning Man 2015” when they sent out that map…
Yet several sound-campers have commented here that the post narrative was AGAINST mobile EDM camps. Wrong language, or Tower of Babel?
Thanks for not implying adding any spin to this and only copying and pasting the facts… The DMV needs to do a better job of vetting, most of what they wrote was full of innuendo and some was just false… You’d think they hated EDM or something nefarious…
You are the one with the innuendo. What are you saying is false?
Well, you said you only copied and pasted the DMV email. It’s not true that the red circle is the ONLY place loud sound cars can be in 2015. That’s misleading. They can go anywhere. If they want to play in one place for more than three hours, that’s the spot set aside. Big difference between the two. Did the DMV really write all of the rest? If you were interested in only passing along info, you would have done nothing more. Is this an exact copy of the email from he DMV?
“A consequence of this policy, is there will be no more major parties at art installations on the Inner Playa. No Embrace burn, no Control Tower white party. The Inner Playa is being made more of an EDM-free zone, like the city itself.
All the major mobile sound systems will just have to line up together, pointed away from Burning Man, and compete with each other. The idea of “music and big art being combined” seems to be downgraded by this move.”
You are talking about the updates now, not the original post. Burners have made comments and I have updated the story accordingly. It is significant that there won’t be any more big art parties on Inner Playa, as pointed out by one commenter on Facebook. I appreciate Bart making the map, if anyone else has a better map please share.
My point is, you chose to post the map without addressing that it’s factually incorrect. You let the stand the implication that loud sound cars can only be in one location this year. The five updates weren’t from the DMV, they were just questions or opinions from people. Hardly worthy of inclusion unless they support your narrative. Are these 100% of all emails exchanged between the DMV and the sound cars? If not, don’t cherry pick. If you’re only goal is to be a conduit of information and a place for discussion, the post only the statement form the DMV and ask what people think. You’re sort of the Fox News of the Burner culture, letting false statements go unaddressed and throwing in innuendo to fan the flames.
How do you propose I obtain 100% of all the emails between DMV and sound cars? If you have them, please share.
I have added a clarification to the map.
Fox News, you say? That’s quite ingenious of you. http://burners.me/2014/12/10/fox-news-of-burning-man/
You are correct. As the official Burning Man publication of record, he should post all the relevant materials; or, only those supporting his narrative….? Gee, I guess you lost me on that. But you are right, he is just posting what he gets, like this is some sort of blog. One hell of a way to run a newspaper! I want my money back!!
If you don’t have access, then don’t cherry pick. Let the DMV statement stand on it’s own. I thought the Fox News things was kind of obvious…
What media property would you prefer us to emulate, Kevin?
There was no cherry picking, I pasted what information I had in its entirety.
I think, if you were to post the DMV announcement and only that, you’d have enough for a discussion and probably suffer less criticism. As it is, false statements like the red circle on the map with the word ONLY in all caps, are misleading. Making pronouncements such as “A consequence of this policy, is there will be no more major parties at art installations on the Inner Playa…The Inner Playa is being made more of an EDM-free zone, like the city itself.” And “…compete with each other. The idea of “music and big art being combined” seems to be downgraded by this move.” Aren’t factual or true. There can be music and dance parties at installations, just not at unsafe levels for long durations. The statement that the inner playa is an EDM free zone is false, it’s a unsafe volume free zone. It’s not that EDM is banned, but other types of music can play at the level 3 volumes. To say the combination of music and art is being downgraded is false. It’s not. So many of the pixels being slaughtered here are due to your inaccuracies. You’d be so much better off without the innuendo and omissions.
The Dance Music Zone is not in the inner playa. The idea of loud music and big art being combined at burning man is now a thing of the past. It’s medium volume music for less than 3 hours only. Unless people start putting big art in the DMZ, which could be interesting.
“Thanks for the shout-out Halcyon, but I really can’t see anything slanted or negative in this post at all – other than the “propagandist” criticism, which is totally warranted. They do employ a Minister of Propaganda.”
The slant is, big sounds cars are relegated to the DMZ only. I had to read the post a couple times before realizing, no, they can still play literally any time and anywhere on the open playa for up to 3 hours in one place, at level 3 decibels. If they want to continue past that, they have to head over to the DMZ. Or hell, possible even just pick up and move somewhere else on the open playa. Or, you know, turn the volume down to below level 3 decibels.
Seriously man, you know I appreciate what you do. Hell, I’m here almost every day. But lately the slant and tone has gotten fairly hysterical. And you still haven’t, as far as I know, responded to whether you think the 3 hour limit is reasonable. Or whether it exists at all, other than your copy/paste of the DMV email. That update with the photo containing the erroneous statement, “The ONLY place where loud sound cars are allowed at Burning Man 2015” is still up there.
So yeah, this post slants more than the Leaning Tower of Piza.
I have added clarification below the map. I shared something that a Burner posted as a comment, because it is informative – it shows the dedicated Dance Music Zone. And because of that – an update a day after the story – the entire post is “slanted”? Please. I give our readers much more credit than that.
The slant:
“A consequence of this policy, is there will be no more major parties at art installations on the Inner Playa. No Embrace burn, no Control Tower white party. The Inner Playa is being made more of an EDM-free zone, like the city itself.”
False statements. As was mentioned by many commenters here, and confirmed with Trilo’s post over at eplaya, dance parties at level 2 decibels can happen anytime and anywhere on the open playa with speakers faced away from the city.
The slant:
“All the major mobile sound systems will just have to line up together, pointed away from Burning Man, and compete with each other. The idea of “music and big art being combined” seems to be downgraded by this move.”
False again. As was suggested by many commenters here and confirmed with Trilo’s post, sound cars can set up and crank music at level 2 decibels any time and anywhere on the open playa with speakers faced away from the city.
Are you saying those 2 paragraphs, which make up the bulk of your writing on this post, aren’t slanted in any way?
You act like “Level 2” = “major”. When I say “major mobile sound systems” I am talking about the 6 Level 3 vehicles.
While it is technically true that they could drive around the DMZ playing music, this is unlikely. They are more likely to be stationary, with a crowd dancing around them.
Level 2 art cars can’t “crank music”. 90 DB is not “crank”, it’s a hairdryer.
It’s a hairdryer at 100ft as if it were next to your head. Come on man, I know you know the difference. That’s fucking loud. Don’t be disingenuous.
In my opinion 90db is not loud. I don’t know enough about how sound travels on the open playa to understand the DB loss that occurs over 100 feet.
You can have the opposite opinion from me, that’s fine, but there’s no need to say I’m being disingenuous just because we see this differently.
Three (3) hours at 90 dB will cause hearing loss. But that presumes you don’t get any closer/louder.
http://64.78.30.80/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/decibel_exposure_chart.gif
Well, “at 100′ it’s a hairdryer,” but no one has their hairdryer on for 3 hours. (BTW, I just checked my (old!) Conair, at it was about 92 dbA.) Ever tried to carry on a conversation while using your hairdryer? Of course not – you turn it off because it is too loud.
“I don’t know enough about how sound travels on the open playa to understand the DB loss that occurs over 100 feet.”
It’s not about decibel loss at 100 ft, it’s measuring the decibel level AT 100ft from the speakers. For level 2, that means it can be up to 100db at 100ft away from the speaker. That means it’s MUCH louder at 50ft, and FUCKING louder at 25 ft. Etc. So using your hairdryer analogy, that means the hairdryer would have to be 90db measured 100ft away. THAT’S A BIG HAIRDRYER.
“The slant is, big sounds cars are relegated to the DMZ only. I had to read the post a couple times before realizing, no, they can still play literally any time and anywhere on the open playa for up to 3 hours in one place, at level 3 decibels”
This statement is false.
You’re right, Trilo’s update cleared that up. Pretty much the only point I’ve been wrong on for this issue, ha.
Thankyou for admitting that you have been spreading falsehoods at Burners.Me. Despite several accusations, no-one has yet shown any falsehoods in this story. OK, the map should also mark the 10 and 2 area, but that is a sin of omission rather than a misrepresentation.
Haha! Your confidence is Trump-esque.
Basically you have a clash of cultures. Rave EDM culture and Burning Man culture are fundamentally different. They got along fine when sound camps were just another thing Burners did and the music didn’t impose itself on everything else and the artists were just amateur DJs gifting their art. It seems like the ravers want to turn Burning Man into a music festival and are confused that the majority of Burners don’t want that. Throughout history, when two cultures clash, one typically devours the other and that is what needs to be guarded against. It comes down to this. If EDM is your thing, you should be able to bring it and share it on playa in a way that doesn’t impose it on those who aren’t interested. You should not be paying artists to appear. If an artist is being paid to appear, they are not gifting their art. If you are paying them, you aren’t gifting your art, because you aren’t making the art and the act of paying for an artist to appear disrespects the community. You shouldn’t be advertising your lineup before all tickets are sold. Because no one should be going to Burning man to simply see a specific DJ. You should not be able to look at a moop map and figure out where the sound camps are, like you can do right now. If these ideas are confusing to you, you have a warped idea of what Burning man is.
Thank you! Well said.
One of the few burners.me posts that I am totally on board with. This is so silly.
Regarding your latest update with the MOOP map and the red circled area labeled, “The only place where loud sound cars will be allowed at Burning Man 2015.” From what I tell from the wording of the DMV policy, that should be changed to:
“The only place where loud sound cars will be allowed TO HAVE PARTIES LASTING MORE THAN 3 HOURS at Burning Man 2015.”
That’s a very important distinction. This allows for the impromptu party near art installations. Three hours is a long time.
If you’re not sure that this is the policy, then maybe hold off on the histrionics until….oh hahaha! Right.
Wow.. Hard to see the real arguments for and against through all the ‘flaming’ mud slinging and banality. “go to the Kids Table” ???
Really?….
“no you should” “no you!” ” I said it first, so there!” ” Doo Doo head”…
Is it that hard to have a civil discussion where we try to figure out how to create the best possible week, for everyone, in our dusty home?
Of course it is hard! The BOrg annual administrative overhead (and profit) over the past ten years has grown from less than $1 million to over $20 million. It should be twenty times as hard as it was when I was first coming,
Ha, you yourself suggested this very idea three years ago!? Hahahaa! Shades of Romney-care.
WHAT!? The BOrg doing what Burnersxxx suggested?! The end is near. All is lost. Vote for The Donald.
How about a cologne lurk zone. For all those heavy on the cologne will be attracted to. 10:30 and Z?
Hey! That’s where we have been asked to create a Megaphone-Free Zone (MFZ). We need some coordination here…
EDM is a total fucking joke. That fact shouldn’t influence policy on all artists or even all DJs. Let the douche bags dance with 300,000 of their bros in a parking lot in Las Vegas but keep them out of the burn. I’d like to say I could still invite any burner into my camp and it would be a mutually enriching experience but spectators don’t count. Bring your best ideas to share or gtfo of my precious BRC. /end rant. Shot gunning beers doesn’t count brah
Also, when did mobile systems that would qualify as level 3 start appearing? And weren’t there great mobile dance parties thrown before that?
I’m not clear on whether this new policy applies only to stationary parties of 3+ hours with level 3 sound cars, or merely level 3 sound cars. If the former, I have zero problems with this. If the latter, I can see how this will inhibit the art installation dance parties. Anyone know the specifics?
The Org is responding to actual behavior problems a small subset of the EDM community has caused. That would be the bro-douchbag-screw-you-I-do-what-I-want subset. That group that believes BM to be just another music festival where they can trash the place because someone will clean-up after them. One way to fix this would be for the cars and sound camps the cancel sets of the crowds don’t clean-up after themselves. I bet that would change things quickly. Whenever BM establishes a rule it tends to be because it is needed. The more people police themselves and model community responsibility, the fewer rules there will be in the end.
“More rules = less rules.” I presume this is going to supersede “rules on rules.”
But yes, I agree. 🙂
So true. This is a response to the EDM crowd and their efforts to turn Burning Man into another EDC or Coachella.
you realise that you’re talking about 80% of Burners? What makes you think that just because a Burner likes dance music, they want to turn Burning Man into EDC? And don’t you think that lining up all the art cars in one place as stages is going to make it MORE like a music festival, not less?
We’re not talking about 80% of the people that attend. 80% of the people that attend are not there for the DJ’s or the electronic dance music. If all the sound cars went away and there were no sound camps, there would not be an 80% reduction in attendance. That’s a ridiculous assumption. Burning Man was doing just fine before it became just another festival to the EDM crowd. EDM is the only thing brought to the playa that is forced upon everyone without their consent. Grouping the sound cars is an attempt to give those that might not want to be subjected to it, a break to experience other sounds. Nothing more.
Come on now, music, even loud, is not “inflicted on you”. You sound like you talk about rape. A lot of things are “forced” on you at Burning Man without your consent. Nudity. Offensive language. Stinky Porta Potties. Pranks. Heat. Unicorns. And the list goes on and on…
Can we also quit the BS and stop pretending every single one of the people attending the raves are douchy-bros-that-don’t-pick-up-after-themselves ? I don’t know if its 50% of 80% or whatever, but I think we can safely say that tens of thousands are gathered in the big sound camps when the night comes. If they all wanted BM to be another Coachella, it would already be another Coachella. The fact is it’s not. So let’s quit this drama.
Wrong! False argument. You are equating EDM camps with port-a-potties to make your straw-dog argument. As discussed above, LOUD MUSIC KEEPS YOU FROM DOING OTHER THINGS LIKE TALKING. And many camps depend on free conversation to function. Moreover, many like to enjoy art without immersion in your music.
To not understand this either means you are just not that bright, or that you presume we are not.
BTW, SF thinks loud sound can be a public health issue, without an exemption for EDM, so it ain’t just us old guys. Only reasonable that the BOrg take measures to reflect this position. They tell us to bring water. Maybe they should tell us all to bring earplugs? That would be fun!
“SEC. 1070.27. EARPLUGS AND FREE DRINKING WATER.
If the location for which the extended hours premises permit is issued holds over 500 persons and contains a dance floor or other place primarily designated for dancing, the permit holder shall provide:
(a) Free cool drinking water to patrons by means of an automatic drinking fountain or by providing cups of water at all beverage service locations, or both; and
(b) Earplugs for free, or for sale on the premises at a reasonable price. (Added by Ord. 176-00, File No. 000477, App. 7/28/2000; amended by Ord. 215-02, File No. 021459, App. 11/1/2002)”
http://www.sfgov2.org/index.aspx?page=343
I agree. A gift is not a gift if it is forced upon you. That is true with a refreshing mist of water, or a song or a hug. Misguided art cars have the potential to impose significant amount of non-consensual “gifting.”
Imagine if “Water Spray Art Cars” would travel around and spray people. If there “Sprayers” that were pushing limits and turning BM into a giant foam party, we’d need to put that in check, too.
Would it not be WONDERFUL if the EDM crowd were all gathered at a place away from BRC, to let the rest of us do our thing! It would be like an EDM suburb/concentration camp. At 60,000+ people, BRC is a large enough city to need zoning, and follow the precedents set in that area.
Maybe they would all even go to an EDM festival. That would be great. Would be nice to see what the burners created to fill that vacuum.
Just look where the crowds are.
Tiger, last year, I set aside a night to make some drinks and catch up with old friends. We were in an RV, windows closed, AC on, maybe 10:30 or 11:00 at night. In my mind, I feel like we have the right to be together for the purpose of talking. About a half hour in, the RV started to vibrate from the bass of a sound car that was parked nearby. It continued to the point where we were having to raise our voices. I walked outside and down the street, explained the problem and asked them to turn the music down. They did for a bit. I went back out, did it again and they turned the music down for a bit, then back up, then moved on. We got back to our conversation, then the camp down the street started up. At first we could talk over it, but then it got to the point of vibrating the RV and we were back to raising our voices. I walked down the street, asked them and they immediately turned the music down. It went back up soon after and I walked over again. This time, I climbed up on the DJ booth, (I’m a big fella, try and stop me…). Holy shit, did they freak out. “You’re not allowed up here! VIP’s only!” The “camp manager” climbed up and the three of us had a talk. They turned the music down and I left. A while later, he came to the RV and asked we were cool. I thanked him, offered him a drink and asked him to join us. He stayed for a bit then moved on.
My point is, EDM is forced upon us without our consent. I forced myself into the VIP area without their consent. (The fact that we’re even talking about a VIP area at BM is kind of disgusting, maybe BLM got the idea from the sound camps) where does it stop? To bring rape into this is a jackass move. Hopefully you can see the difference now.
I wish somebody would do something about all the people complaining about stuff while at the burn. I’d like to see them put in a far corner of the playa.
Or, perchance, expand
I Am Too Old CampHushville from one half of a block to ten blocks.I’ll dance on your grave, you young whippersnapper!
Sooo…. It sounds like there are complaints the BORG is doing something for the EDM crowd, but it’s not enough? Can the people that want Burnig Man, not EDC ask for a 2 mile limit?
The new rules place the deep playa party, of which, I was of the belief it was near to F street, towards K street, 1,000 feet more from First Camp, near to 1.5 miles from First Camp, and near to 2 miles from
the other I Am Too Old CampHushville. Awesome parties, in the manner of the Embrace mutant vehicle party within 2014, will be permitted for solely 3 hours, might the parties even be permitted, and big sound mutant vehicles are not to be permitted to be parked near to the 2:00 sound camps for more than 3 hours, of which, there is no rationale for this new rule.But, the BLM police demand ‘compliant participants’, of which, it is within point 1 of their 20 points, and new rules are most important for participants to model community responsibility and be compliant towards.
I don’t know, but it seems the org is trying to address the concerns of the blm through targeting the edm groups. I’m sure they blame the majority of drug and public safety problems on the ravers. I’m guessing they think this is a solution to potty on the playa, just like refusing placement to other large camps will stop drug offenses (HA!).
Personally, it feels like they are trying to make it more difficult for edm groups, without an outright ban. While I personally think the sound levels from party cars and camps is getting out of hand (even though I love edm quite a lot, and go to plenty of loud festivals), this certainly is not the way to address any problems related to party cars/camps. Why not get the large scale sound systems together for a discussion? I know the majority of these groups are very well intentioned, and most any problems blamed on them are not their fault, but I’m sure they could do more to help the issues than new regulations will.
“Why not get the large scale sound systems together for a discussion?” WHAT!? The BOrg ask the burners what might be a good idea?! That is entirely unprecedented and suggests that the BOrg does not possess infinite wisdom. Sorry, but the BOrg created the NV burn and knows all. THEY tell the burners what to do, not the other way around. They are the reason that the event has become so successful, NOT the burners. Get a grip.
Death to the non-believers!!
Lol, I knew it was a dumb idea when I posted it, but you know, I like to see myself type. Obviously the org knows best, and people like me should just consume tickets, make donations and create acceptable gifts.
I have it on good authority that your reprieve is in the works. You will get it “soon.”
I heard it was coming “soon”, I will be anxiously awaiting, and telling all my friends it will be here soon, and how great the org is!
LMAO
“Lol, I knew it was a dumb idea when I posted it,” don’t let the dick below you discredit your thoughts, fuck that guy for making you think your idea was dumb.
OK, OK… You have my official permission to “get the large scale sound systems together for a discussion.” Let me know how that works out. No shouting.
Wait, wait, it’s coming… YES! The Megaphone Camp! We will have trikes stocked with megaphones, following mobile sound camps through BRC, loaning megaphones to nearby camps so that they can conduct business until the mobile noise camp moves away. Since there won’t be any camps around the DMZ, guess no point on following them out there.
Ive been going out there since 97 .they told me no more flame thrower on my trike,now they say my sound system is too loud on my little trike.why drive all that way to be told what you cant do.you are all a bunch of pussies.too many cry baby new agers.im not going back out there unless they let me design and build the temple.go comply .
Megaphones have rights, too! MEGAPHONES MATTER!!
More yoga! More TED talks! Yay!
Yes, and I hope they deliver, unlike GratituteNYC last year. But you know what, I found I could do those without paying $400 and going into the high desert. The TED talks were a bit tough, until I figured out that the triangle thingy in the middle of the screen was “play.”
I like the idea or more porta-potties. That is all.
Watch out. Port-a-potties are a hard cost that the BOrg cannot finesse. Unless… the Larry LLC buys a local port-a-potty company. Maybe they can get their multi-million-dollar lawyer contract to include the surge staffing! That would be cool, and keep the hard costs down.
“This year we are establishing a deep playa zone where level three mutant vehicles can park for more than 3 hours.”
Funny how this website leaves out critical information that might actually help people understand why things happen the way they do on the Playa.
Let’s be clear, we Mutant Vehicle owners are responsible people who want to gift our art. We have no more rights to force you to experience our art than someone walking in a flame shooting outfit has a right to endanger participants ‘because freedom!’
If you have a Level 3 vehicle like we do (unaverz.cim), treat the Playa with respect. If you want to blast your music >>IN A SINGLE LOCATION AT FULL VOLUME FOR MORE THAN 3 HOURS<<, roll over to that huge area and go to town.
WTF?!? Is this really so hard to understand?
(Personally, I wish we didn't have any restrictions. But let's be honest, we have had some rather sad incidents involving loud Mutant Vehicles. Something has to give. For me at least, this is a small concession.)
If you blasted my camp in BRC for 20 minutes, you would not get a chance to break the 3-hour rule. I have a megaphone with a 1KHz test tone, and I would use it.
In case anyone wants to arm their camp, I suggest:
http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Pro-PMP35R-Professional-Megaphone-Bullhorn/dp/B003CIXLJ4/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1437342005
Looks like…
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51h2edGHCjL._SL1000_.jpg
What did we leave out? I pasted what I was sent verbatim , if you have more please share.
‘Leave out’ was a back choice of words. I should have said:
“You completely skew every incident to make it look like ever BMORG is trying to destroy Burning Man.”
It is sad really.
You highlight exactly the wrong stuff and then make ‘an update’ about MOOP. Do you have >>ANY<< idea what the playa looks like after a Level 3 vehicle has played all night? I would guess from your post that you do not. BMORG does.
I welcome you join our vehicle one night. Come Tuesday when we will have a few Big Name™ folks with us until sunrise. I would love for you to see our crew MOOPing for OVER AN HOUR before we head home. It's part of our routine because we know that folks who have joined us don't always clean up after themselves.
As we ride back, we will take you by other Level 3 parties. A single ride home at 10am will help you understand what BMORG is working with.
Oh, and since you mentioned Embrace, maybe you should check in with them and see how they feel about this new policy.
We Burners are a small community. Those of us who put in hundreds of hours creating art that we gift, are an even smaller group. Before you cut and paste emails directed to Level 3 Mutant Vehicle owners and highlight the parts you don't like, maybe you could query a few of us and find out how we feel. And if you are concerned about the big art pieces in the deep playa, why not ask them how they feel? I am happy to supply you with contacts if you need them.
And let me be clear. Fewer rules are better. I wish we didn’t need any.
Asking loud mutant vehicles who want to stay in a single spot for more than 3 hours to play a mile from The Man? Yeah, it’s not freedom but, honestly, we kind of all do that already. Seriously. We just don’t do it in such a small slice of the deep playa.
Your commenting rights here were an aberration. You were supposed to let the post stand with NO COMMENTS. And fer chrissake, don’t send a link here to anyone else whom you think should express their opinion. This is a news site!!, not some damn internet blog for people to throw comments at.
‘Oh, and since you mentioned Embrace, maybe you should check in with them and see how they feel about this new policy.’
Are you of the meaning of the awesome Pier Group, whom coordinated the Thursday night mutant vehicle party at their Embrace? The group that was told solely three months before the burn that they were not permitted to burn Embrace in due of a change of rules, and the BMOrg would not compromise with them, perchance in the manner of placing Embrace in deep playa with trash fence perimeter one half of a mile from Embrace, purposed for the BLM police might not park too near and have burning ashes fall on their big SUVs? The group that was left more than $35,000 in debt, by the BMOrg, whom has ticket sales of $30.5 million? The group whose members threw the Reno Art Fest, within 2015 March, but was not promoted, by the BMOrg, in due of it was not within the control of the BMOrg? The group that constructed the awesome 2011 Temple of Transition, the Pier I, the Pier II, and the Spanish Galleon, but, were told, by the BMOrg, and the BMOrg social media crew, that they were not permitted to be the temple within 2014 in due of their awesome Embrace was ‘too heteronormative’, of whatever that might mean?
One mutant vehicle was too loud at their burn, but, the BMOrg owes the awesome Pier Group much Gratitude. The BMOrg might begin to show Gratitude towards the 2015 temple crew by paying the $70,000, or $100,000 of cash, needed for the construction of the temple, from their $30.5 million of ticket sales, of which, the BMOrg refuses to disclose where the ticket money goes.
Just to be clear … The Temple of Transition was designed and built by The International Arts Megacrew,
My apology, I try to be correct in regards to everything. Kudos on the 2011 Temple of Transition and the Control Tower.
Whoa whoa whoa – 1 – Temple of Transition was NOT the Pier Crew. 2 – They didn’t get the temple in 2014 because the Embrace sculpture didn’t make a good temple design. The temple isn’t a figurative sculpture and the Embrace sculpture doesn’t fit what the temple needs to be, architecturally. 3 – the Org didn’t complain that Embrace was ‘too heteronormative’ that was their local community, and they responded by softening the genders of the sculptures. Some of what you wrote above is accurate, but the inaccuracies are astounding. There is a lot to complain about in how BMOrg runs their party, but when you make baseless accusations, your complaints lose all credibility. Also, it’s THEIR party, they’ll do what they like and we’ll go or not. We’ll make art for them or not. It’s not fair, but no one signing a contract with the Org to make art for them believes that the check they are getting covers the whole piece. To act like this piece or that piece deserves to be bailed out by BMOrg is disingenuine at best.
I am of the belief of the Burners make the party, not the BMOrg, and of that the BMOrg must pay more of the costs of the awesome artists, mutant vehicle owners, labourers, and those whom provide entertainment towards the ticket buyers from their $30.5 million of ticket sales. I am also of the belief of, in due of the change from a private corporation, to a 501(c)3 public benefit corporation, of they must act in the manner of a 501(c)3 public benefit corporation, and of that the Burner Man Project board has responsibilities in regards of getting this rubbish within control, purposed for the good of the Project. We disagree.
A beginnings of getting this rubbish within control is for the Board to require of the BMOrg to pay the $70,000, to $100,000, of cash needed to finish the 2015 Temple of Promise, that is solely fair, in addendum of voting to require of the BMOrg to negotiate a most fair contract with the awesome artists.
The BMOrg had the ability to select a temple that was not within the box within 2014, as is most appropriate for Burning Man, but they permitted your social media crew mates to state of it was too heteronormative as the rationale.
ABP, trying to micro-manage the ticket revenues is a losing proposition. There is not enough there it make a dent in the contribution that the burners make. You are only trying to make minor adjustments in the largess the BOrg wants to wield. Instead, we should fight for things that are to the benefit of all the artists and theme camps. Only in this way can we be sure all those who contribute get benefit. As long as you rely on the decision/discretion of the BOrg, you are buying into their claim as king-makers.
Burning Man is not a music festival. It is also not a festival where people make art and get paid for it. Burning Man is an event where people gift their creativity to each other and the gifting is part of the point. Perhaps there will b a festival some day where artists get paid to make art but it won’t be Burning Man, because that is not what Burning Man is. (ticket prices would have to be much higher because I promise you BM doesn’t have the money to pay those who contribute.)
“Black Rock [City], LLC owns 5 federal trademark registrations:
BLACK ROCK GAZETTE for its newspaper
BURNING MAN for conducting art festivals
BLACK ROCK CITY for conducting art festivals
FLAMBE LOUNGE for conducting art festivals
DECOMPRESSION for conducting art festivals”
[Source]
Thought “BURNING MAN” was owned by Decommodification LLC.
Your 2011″source” pre-dates Decommodification LLC, the BMP, and the careful orchestration of IP, as well as picking up trademarking the logo.
Although the ownership of the IP has changed, the trademarks still remain in the category of “Arts Festivals”
“You completely skew every incident to make it look like ever BMORG is trying to destroy Burning Man.” – please provide an example of how you think I am doing that in this post.
1) You highlight things you think are bad (location of DMZ, additional portopotties, edge cases) but nothing you highlight is controversial.
2) You chose not to highlight what is important and why BMORG is doing this (these rules apply ONLY to the tiny subset of Mutant Vehicles that received the vast majority of complaints – and only if we hold events of more than 3 hours).
3) BMORG is experimenting with new guidelines specifically so they don’t need to impose more restrictive rules (yet you spin this as a Bad Thing™)
4) Your Cochrane update could explain exactly why this policy is suggested. Am I being a good neighbor if I park all night next to an art piece I am attracted to and blast my music?
I believe BMORG is asking us to try to get along with the wider community. They are suggesting that we use the DMZ for long loud events in the hopes that complaints go down.
Should BMORG have to do this? No. Mutant Vehicle crews should police themselves. I hope we collectively gift wonderful art without a ton of complaints this year and that we don’t see more restrictions next year.
Maybe you won’t find it so sinister if you think of the DMZ as the Esplanade/2/10 for Mutant Vehicles with loud sound. Thankfully BMORG are providing additional portopotties.
“Am I being a good neighbor if I park all night next to an art piece I am attracted to and blast my music?” Only if you are prepared to MOOP your sound ground.
1) Where does it say additional portapotties are bad?
2) You think it is skewed because I didn’t guess WHY BMorg does something. Wouldn’t it be more skewed if I DID guess why? You are wrong about who the rules apply to. People who never caused complaints are getting punished
3) “rules aren’t rules” – that is basically the only mildly critical point I made here. I just pointed it out as a typical example of propaganda. You are putting words in my mouth with this Bad Thing
4) if the artist invited you, you are.
Did you state in your summary that this only applies to Level 3 vehicles that want to play their music at full volume in a single spot for more than 3 hours?
No? Why not?
I am arguing you didn’t because most everyone on this thread would say; “Well, that’s kind of reasonable. I might not like it, but it really is only a guideline and it only applies to a few crews who have received a lot of complaints.”
Instead, your slanted reporting and inaccurate updates (the area extends all the way to the trash fence) are specifically designed to get folks angry.
I hope you are not surprised that folks don’t take you seriously. Some of us are actually working to make this event enjoyable. I am sorry you can’t check your privilege enough to help us.
PS: It sure would help if you got your facts straight. At least then we could engage in a discussion. While I respectfully disagree with your logic, I am stunned by your poor reporting of the facts. You have been at this long enough to know better. Sad.
Ulan, your comment is truly amazing! This is one of his VERY shortest blog posts, and it quotes the DMV, starting with:
from DMV:
DANCE MUSIC ZONE (DMZ): LEVEL 3 SOUND MUTANT VEHICLE PARKING
———————————————————–
This year we are establishing a deep playa zone where level three mutant vehicles can park for more than 3 hours.
Pretty well covers the 3 & 3 points you claim he carefully avoided. But more amazing is that you don’t see that Burnersxxx thinks this sequester is a bad thing, and that the EDM camps should roam freely in BRC.
Yes, Ulan, you are simply amazing. Perhaps an illustration of the problem.
“Mobile sound stages will now be fixed in position, in the Dance Music area. ”
This is not true.
And yes, me and my crew >>ARE<< part of the problem. We are in conversations with multiple Level 3 vehicles working to fix it.
As an example, last year we played surf music at full volume during The Wave burn. DMV received a number of complaints. We explained to DMV that we were invited by the artist to play and they simply requested that in the future we might turn our volume down a bit as we were not in deep playa. I think their request is reasonable as it is part of the established rules for having a Level 3 vehicle.
We admitted our mistake and will work to not make it again. Let's move on, ok?
If you have suggestions on how we can improve the burn, let's hear them. Biased/inaccurate reporting does not help anyone – least of all the reporter.
Great that your true story is now coming out. You could’ve told us 5 comments ago. Instead you choose this forum to attack the messenger. And we should respect you because you played surf music without even asking the artist? cool story bro.
Please read carefully before posting. It will help your reporting reputation.
We were asked by the artist to play. Playing was not the problem. The volume was the problem. This is the issue BMORG is trying to solve.
You could help us solve it by reporting on the problem.
And for what it’s worth, I’m not trying to be ‘cool bro’. I am trying to create a better Burning Man where I can gift my art. What, exactly, are you doing? Brah.
We certainly did state that: “This year we are establishing a deep playa zone where level three mutant vehicles can park for more than 3 hours.”
Man, I guess my Millionaire camp really lucked out this year, and got moved to the Esplanade. The millionaires love to party all night with the art cars, but us serfs like to be able to get some rest every once and awhile:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/millionairecamp/
“If you have to ask…”
I wonder if this will apply to my “Bars and Tone” truck. I suppose not, since I don’t expect people to be dancing. I will still be free to roam BRC showing my color bars screen and belting out my 1KHz test tone for all to enjoy! It’s the part of almost every TV show that they never get to see!!
But making the drive to gift to the DMZ should now be in our plans. What we lack in bandwidth we make up for in raw SPL.
Yet another dumb article by burners.me…
WHy you gotta be so stupid anyway… Lol.
U mad bro? U mad that BM is providing more deep playa porta-potties? Lol bwa hahahahhaha. Stick a sock on that Facehole already…
Was that supposed to be a compelling argument? Because if it was, I missed it. Please go back to the kids table and practice with your food some more.
thanks, you really put me in my place.
Reblogged this on Terry Gotham and commented:
Such shit. The backpedaling, now that the 1% can’t deal with massive sound, is so shameful. It’s like a club sending their GA attendees to a party across the street.
I was thinking the children’s table at Thanksgiving, which is also good for anyone who has a tendency to throw their food.
I’m pretty sure some of those massive sound vehicles are owned and operated by the 1%.
We have always been at war with dubstep.
What!? They are intruding on the rights of mobile sound camps to intrude on the rights of other camps who want to communicate by voice. Where will it all end?
Well, I won’t have it ready for this year, but I’m integrating a 100+ watt megaphone into a bicycle….
Be sure to move every 3 hours or you might be exiled to the DMZ!