Feb 3 2016

Burning Man Tickets: $1500 [Updates]

 

Image: Thomas Tomaso, Facebook

Image: Thomas Tomaso, Facebook

The shenanigans have ended. As we predicted, once the dust has settled from all the propaganda histrionics, BMOrg have raised ticket prices yet again. The 9% Live Entertainment Tax will be passed on to Burners – unless a miracle happens and Nevada rules that the “Burning Man tax” was never meant to apply to Burning Man.

We haven’t yet received a response from the Nevada Department of Taxation to our inquiry. We had hoped to resolve this matter before selling tickets so that participants would not have to pay the tax, but the state is taking longer than we expected to issue an opinion. Unfortunately, this means we will have to collect the tax at the time of purchase, as per the law. At 9% a pop, this amounts to an additional $34 for each $390 ticket (if the tax is found not to apply after ticket sales commence, we will issue a refund for the 9% collected)

[Source]

BMOrg have created a new “class” of tickets for 1000 Super-Elite VIP patrons. These VIP tickets are a staggering $1200 each – which is actually $1299  including vehicle pass and handling fees. The 42% of Burners who live in California may have to pay double tax on their tickets – 7.5% sales tax plus the 9% Live Entertainment Tax. This will add almost $200 to the ticket price, for a total of $1497 per ticket.

Vehicle passes have increased in price too: now $80. BMOrg claim the vehicle pass program as a huge success, because it used to be 12.8% of participants arriving in a car by themselves, and now it’s down to 10%. Interesting that they are using this statistic, instead of vehicle numbers. Is the goal to get vehicles off the road, or to stop people arriving by themselves?

They have also hiked the price of 5,000 pre-sale tickets to $1000 each – well, $990, but you get the picture.

Regular tickets remain at $390 (plus taxes, $12 mailing charge and $7 handling fee). Half of the regular tickets (25,000, and 13,000 vehicle passes) go to those selected by BMOrg to be in the World’s Biggest Guest List – the Directed Group Sale

There will be 6000 tickets at $190, for the Low Income program and staff.

 

[Update 3/13/16 6:46pm]

Now that the sale has happened, we know a $7 “handling fee” is applied to each individual ticket and vehicle pass. Really, each ticket costs $7 more than the listed price. Rather misleading and deceptive conduct, if you ask me. Here is an update revenue calculation, including the Nevada Live Entertainment Tax also.

Screenshot 2016-03-13 18.45.44

 

Burning Man’s event revenue in 2014 was $30,679,219.

This statement from the Tickets page is a little confusing:

A 9% Nevada Live Entertainment Tax will be added to the price of all tickets and $3 of the $7 per ticket service fee. Will Call delivery is the only method subject to this tax, but the $12 fee will be inclusive so additional tax will not be charged to you for this option.

So if you get the ticket mailed to you, you don’t pay the tax? Or you have to pay an extra $3 if you go to Will Call, which is in Nevada? Are BMOrg saying they are going to cover the $3 extra tax component of a Will Call sale?

Registration for the Pre-Sale opens February 10, and the first sale takes place at noon on Wednesday, February 17.

 

[Update 2/4/16 7:55am]

I’ve been trying to confirm if the California sales tax applies, and if so is it just the $1200 or the whole transaction (including the Vehicle Pass, $19 processing charges, and Live Entertainment Tax), without any real success either way. Perhaps someone with expertise in this area can confirm whether or not CA sales tax applies to event tickets sold over the Internet via a CA web site to CA customers by CA corp Ticketfly on behalf of NV corporation Black Rock City LLC that licenses the Burning Man name from CA private corporation Decommodification LLC and distributes 100% of its profits to tax-exempt CA parent company The Burning Man Project.

I note that back in 2012, when this ticket lottery system began, the VIP price tier was $390 (and there were no vehicle passes). In 4 short years this has gone to $1200, and the cheapest ticket has gone from $229 (2011, ticket plus handling) to $489 (2016, ticket plus handling plus vehicle pass) – an increase of 113%.

Does this mean that by 2020, VIP tickets will be $10,000 and regular tickets will be $1,000?

In the same time frame the population of the city has grown 25%. BMOrg have added another $7-8 million per year in revenues, as well as being able to save millions on taxes; the city is still the same, portapotties, roads, signs, The Man, Gate, Exodus, Center Camp, First Camp, Media Mecca. Maybe there’s a couple hundred more portapotties, but otherwise it’s hard to see where this extra money has all gone to make the Burning Man event better for the Burners who have to create it.

 

[Update 2/4/16 12:06pm]

Here’s some data from tracking the secondary market prices on Stubhub in 2015.

Screenshot 2016-02-04 12.06.24

 

[Update 2/4/16 3:18pm][

Thanks to A Balanced Perspective for picking up on this point.

The revenue from these ticket sales will let us keep prices the same for everyone else. The 1,000 tickets sold at $1,200 each will raise $1.2 million. So what does Burning Man do with $1.2 million? Last year we issued $1.2 million in grants directly to artists through Black Rock City Honoraria. Add to that an additional $1.8 million in support services, and the 2015 BRC art budget topped $3 million. Again, you can learn all about Burning Man’s budget and expenses in our Form 990 and Annual Report.

They have managed to link “$1.2 million in grants directly to artists” to “$1.2 million of Medici patronage tickets being sold”.

It is hard to say if this statement is true or not, since we only just got the 2014 numbers. In 2014 total art grants were $911.955. Did they increase from this to $3 million? We probably won’t know for another year, but I call bullshit.

 

154 comments on “Burning Man Tickets: $1500 [Updates]”

  1. Pingback: BMOrg vs BLM: You Took Too Much | Burners.Me: Me, Burners and The Man

  2. Frank said, “…no doubt there are fuckups […no doubt, and will be more] behind the scenes where tickets are given to people who don’t deserve it. [Guessing the double secret committee decides on “deserving” because they own the party], but your suggestion to make everything public will just turn it into a very public and unproductive shit show.” Well, if you take a historical perspective, it wasn’t a shit show until recently when it became exclusive and proprietary. BM was a crowdsourced happening when it was transparent and community based rather than group-think conformity to the masters decisions. All this discussion did was illuminate the pandering, special interest, favoritism, “cool” kids crap that has developed at BM, along with the “I give more than thou” holiness. So that makes you more special, I call bullshit. Your boasts of being allowed into event for free, and bragging that you’re special enough to BM to get your friends in too, and you Frank said, “…no doubt there are fuckups behind the scenes where tickets are given to people who don’t deserve it. [Guessing the double secret fuckups committee decides on “deserving”], but your suggestion to make everything public [best way I know of to fix fuckups] will just turn it into a very public and unproductive shit show.” Well, if you take a historical perspective, it wasn’t a shit show until recently when it became exclusive, proprietary, and cultishly secretive. BM was a crowdsourced happening when it was transparent and community based rather than the current group-think conformity to the masters decisions. All this discussion did was illuminate the pandering, special interest, favoritism, “cool kids” crap that has developed at BM, along with the “I give more than thou” holiness. Your boasts of being allowed in for free, and bragging that you’re special enough to BM that you can get your friends in free too, and you can always get tix is elitist Douchebag-Burner crap. Thank you Frank, you have enlightened me, I am transformed and it makes me less inclined to bother with BM. Calling other burners “tourists” because you don’t think an individual “gives” as much as you has reinforced my opinion that you sir are not a burner but rather a genuine asshole, so with great sincerity I say, fuck your burn dude.

    The analogy of Bohemian Grove’s transformation to the changes in BM attendees seems accurate in my humble opinion as I was there (BG) before it was privatized. Honestly, BM could be worse, if it went further towards a Branch Davidian, or Jones Town management mentality – “drink the Kool-Aid, it’s good for you,” and I find the similarities to Scientology fitting, Frank, well, as he has achieved a state of Clear in his opinions of others. For $500-$1200-$1500 per ticket you too can be Clear; holy fuck people move on and let the 2%-ers play. I for one am not mad or sad about NOT being there year after year due to timing, bad-luck, whatever, shit-happens. Frank, go ahead and call me a tourist because I’m not as devout-a-burner as you. Sticks-n-stones childishness, I have been a burner for decades before the beach bonfire went to the desert. I empathize with John Law’s walking away from the “scene.” There have been and will be other awesome places and events; it’s a big wonderful world. My apologies to Burnerxxx for this “senior citizen rant,” but Frank got on my last dick nerve. In closing, BRC is not on my “bucket list” as my list does not include ‘been-there-done-that’ so you won’t be seeing this fossil in the desert. Well, that’s not exactly correct as I will be hanging out around Moab for a few weeks later this year after I get back from Costa Rica. Peace!

    Reply

  3. It’s a vicious world, life is short… it’s not worth fighting over over-priced tickets to one event.

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  4. Burnersxxx, I feel like there is some similarity between the BORG and Scientology. The money grab, exploitation of followers, a top enormously paid narcissist or narcissists, issues of cultism, closed books and power. While the BORG presumably does not imprison people like the Church of Scientology has supposedly done, it seems like are similarities worth exploring.

    Reply

    • In the place of penning a post in regards of Burning Man and Scientology being most similar, might a professional reporter desire to pen the story of the future of Burning Man in regards of the priorly counterculture, and nonconformist, culture of Burning Man is being sold out in the same manner as the counterculture bohemians of Bohemian Grove were sold out a century prior? The bohemians owned the Bohemian Grove, but purposed to buy two areas of forest near to the grove ‘not long after the Club’s establishment by newspaper journalists, it was commandeered by prominent San Francisco-based businessmen, who provided the financial resources necessary to acquire further land and facilities at the Grove. However, they still retained the “bohemians”—the artists and musicians—who continued to entertain international members and guests.’

      Apologies, burnersxxx, in regards of repeating this comment, but I am of the belief of this is most important, and that many hundreds, perchance thousands, of people whom are of the knowledge of the plans done within the prior year, in regards of the BMOrg selling out the priorly counterculture, and nonconformist, Burner culture to their rich mates, purposed to gain the cash for their Burning Man Resort and Conference Center. The 2016 theme is of trickle down economics to artists and sherpas, Caveat Magister is repenning of Larrys rubbish of this manner upon the Burning Man Journal, your article of Big Burner Bucks in the Biggest Little Tax Haven was most impressive, and the gigapan picture of the 2015 Burning Man showed many rich plug and play camps.

      The Fly Ranch plan, of the manner stated within the prior link, is to gain the cash for the plan by selling homesteads, or buildings, upon the ranch. What might be the rationale of many rich plug and play theme camps at Burning Man, and what might be the rationale of the Borg in serving their comforts by the big Outside Site Services program? Bohemian Grove is of near to 118 theme camps, and might theme camps, in the manner of Bohemian Grove, be sold upon Fly Ranch, and the many rich plug and play theme camps at Burning Man be purposed to be upon Fly Ranch, purposed to gain the cash for the Burning Man Resort and Conference Center? A reporter, in the manner stated within the Burning Man Project bylaws, is of the ability to walk into the Burning Man offices, within the usual business hours, purposed to view, and copy, the minutes of the Project discussing, and voting, upon this, and might request of the BLM, within Winnemucca, the list of Outside Site Services vendors of 2015, including of the names upon the forms, and the amount of cash paid in due of the three per cent commercial use levy towards the BLM, in addendum of viewing the gigapan picture of 2015 Burning Man, purposed to gain the knowledge of listing the many rich plug and play theme camps, of RVs, hexayurts, and dhomes.

      Themes of prior Burning Mans were purposed to discuss the future of Burning Man, in the manner of Metropolis, in due of the regionals, Evolution, Rites of Passage towards the non profit, and Fertility 2.0. My belief is the theme of 2016 is, in addendum, purposed towards the future of Burning Man, is of turning Burning Man on his head, of trickle down economics of the rich to the artists and sherpas, of doing a Renaissance Pleasure Faire in due of their plan of an event of many weeks upon the Hualapai playa in a most similar manner to the Renaissance Pleasure Faires, and the Burning Man retreat within November was at the Esalen Institute and conference center in due of their plan is a mix of the manners of the the prior Harbin Hot Springs, Renaissance Pleasure Faires, Esalen Institute conference center, and Bohemian Grove rich theme camps. In addendum, within the manner stated priorly, Scientology might be placed within the mix.

      Might a reporter desire to pen this article of the future of Burning Man, and of the selling out of the prior culture?

      Reply

  7. Larry stated numerous times of that Black Rock City, to be a real city, needed a government, a central meeting place, and a newspaper, and they stepped forward to be the tasked government. Awesome Burners constructed the center camp, and the BMOrg funded a newspaper, but the funds were halted near to 2006 in due of the newspaper desired to report upon the rubbish of the BMOrg, within the manner that newspapers report upon governments. Within 2011, the BMOrg did a coup, of Larry stating of that it was time for the business owners to come out of the shadows, and took all profits, and near to all net cash, gained over the entire history of Burning Man towards their pockets prior of donating the BRC LLC, dba Burning Man, to the Burning Man Project at the end of 2013, leaving solely $3,158,937 of net assets upon the ledger upon the donation.

    burnersxxx, thank you for stepping forward to be the newspaper for the awesome Burner community, and a voice for the Burners. The BMOrg rubbish continues in regards of no representation of the Burner community, whom created Burning Man in a bottoms up, crowd sourced manner, is within the Burning Man Project, controlled in a most secretive, and most top down, manner by solely three, or four, people, in the manner reported upon within this blog.

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  9. I asked my partner to remember the least we paid for tickets… he says $75 in 2002.
    I’m not one to save possessions, but he should still have his tickets, from that and other years.

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  10. It’s interesting to me that one can purchase up to eight tickets at the higher prices in the presale (and up to four vehicle passes), but only two tickets and one vehicle pass in the general sale.

    While I get that there are far more people that will want to only pay the lower price, it still makes me think that there is a specific target market in mind for those that have the means and the need to purchase so many higher priced tickets as a way to guarantee their attendance; perhaps the need to travel with one’s personal staff or posse (shout out to P-Diddy) is very real.

    Reply

    • View the awesome gigapan picture of 2015 Burning Man from numerous airplane pictures, of the many rich RV and hexayurt plug and play camps, and the awesome burnersxxx post of Big Burner Bucks in the Biggest Little Tax Haven, and Larrys post of the 2016 Turning Man theme in regards of ‘wealthy Patrons’ for information in regards of a ‘specific target market in mind for those that have the means and the need to purchase so many higher priced tickets as a way to guarantee their attendance’.

      Reply

      • On the one hand, they are pricing it for billionaires, publicly crowing about the billionaires that attend, and saying that Commodification and Concierge Camps are OK because it’s all just on a spectrum. On the other hand groups like Festivals Concierge Service are being demonized, along with anyone associated with them; while Billionaire nouveau Burners get away with things that the rest of the population would be publicly shamed for.

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  11. I’ll dig mine up from 2007 – 2009 later tonight, but from a quick Googling, here are two different tiered prices from 2009, printed on the back. This is what I remember as well.

    http://dustandillusions.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/bmticket2009back.jpg

    https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3512/3464972598_249eff1744.jpg

    Also, burnersxxx, those ticket images you show in the previous comments, I saw the same, and right next to those are images of the back of the tickets, showing the printed price. You’re asking if anyone has pictures, I’m sure you saw those. Just sayin.’ 🙂

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    • You assume that I would be able to get tickets. Why would you think that? Is it because Pink Hearted and Burn After Reading mag get tickets? We definitely don’t get anything. Just in the queue with everyone else. Through in 8 minutes, not good enough.

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      • Oh I don’t believe you’re defeated that easily. Even if you don’t get them in the official sales, I’m sure you could swing the after-market prices. 🙂

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        • Of course I can buy tickets. In 2015 Amex offered me up to 10. Well “offered” at a price that at the time was above Stubhub.

          That’s not the point though. Is this process truly random? Or are some “Burner Profiles” favored over others? I feel like I have given a lot to the Burner community over 18 years, time and money and promotion. Why is the only part of my life where I am consistently unlucky with tech, this Burning Man ticket lottery? Of course, could be just repeated coincidence like Hillary Clinton winning 6 coin tosses in a row in Iowa!

          Reply

          • A few people in our camp have yet to score a ticket in the main sale since it started selling out, one of them has been going since the 90s, another couple just since 2012. Then there’s the woman who’s gotten 2 tickets and a vehicle pass every damn time. I’m 2 for 4 in the main sale. I really think the online sale is as random as any other event.

          • So you have three ways of getting a ticket: a) random; b) suck up to the Borg to get DS tix; or, c) pay two or three times the face price. How does that form a creative critical mass?

            They should take big chunk of tix, say 5,000, and offer them as grandfathered to past burners, who meet certain criteria that could be debated. I would suggest: at least 2 years attending a burn before the 2011 sellout, participant at at least 1 placed theme camp/MV/playa art. At least that would take some of the burn out of the hands of random chance, wealth and subjective decisions of the Borg.

            I don’t see chance, wealth, or points with the Borg as having anything to do with what came to form my old Burning Man experiences. It was the people.

          • BMorg would probably say that’s what the 25,000 DGS tickets are. Who’s in, who’s out. Of course it is not determined by contributions over time, just “what have you done for me lately” and “do you have any insiders who dislike you“. As we have discussed here before, no need to re-hash.

            I believe there are even some who took up Larry’s 1997 offer of “lifetime tickets for $400” that are still honored – for those wanting to cling at straws of decency and intergrity in this sitch.

            P.S. from now on I’m gonna be calling it “Farce Value”

          • In my model it would be OBJECTIVE fully-disclosed criteria derived from previous ticket sales and camp/MV/art participation (using the emailed receipts if the bonehead Borg did not keep good records). You would first offer the tix to people with the most years-points, then peel it back until all the tix were gone.

            Ideally this would be for ALL the tix, putting who attends back into the hands of the burners.

            You could offer tix 1-for-1 from past purchase, and then let camps/MV/art make appeals to the “legacy ticketing system” people, and let those veterans decide if they want to transfer their tkt rights to the people who need them. This would lead to open online discussion of proposals for new camps/MVs/art, with vets voting with their tkt vouchers. That would be really cool, particularly as a creative commons and exchange of ideas. You can do really cool stuff if you empower the people.

            …But that would NEVER happen because empowering the burners that create the event is the LAST thing the Borg would do. They diligently refuse to acknowledge that Burning Man is created by the burners because that would not be consistent with the self-delusion they aggressively sell, saying it all comes from their magic sauce – as yet to be codified let alone proved. (You know what bothers me? That they are flying the world first class to show people how to use NPD to manage creativity….)

          • There were actually multiple coin tosses, some of which won by Sanders. NPR did an article about it. In either case, the tosses did not impact the outcome significantly. Not sure why media pushing the Clinton improbability story… Oh wait, I do.

          • “Yes I did. ( https://burners.me/2016/02/03/burning-man-tickets-1600/#comment-132364 ) ( https://burners.me/2016/02/03/burning-man-tickets-1600/#comment-132374 )
            Have actually said this before in several comment threads.”

            Your solution favors old-time burners and not recent contributions. The vibrancy of the playa depends on people who have the energy to do hard work for this coming burn. And you assume DGS tickets hands in the hands of “random chance, wealth and subjective decisions”, which is pure conjecture, just like your continued baseless and insulting insinuation that we paid off the org to get in DGS. most DGS tickets are indeed distributed to old-timers.

            “Frank said “you can keep lying to yourself we somehow get tickets because we paid off someone ….while thinking we didn’t earned our way to BRC through hard work and just paid someone off. ”

            When you commented, ““i know of virgins who get gift tickets for outsized contributions on art projects,” ( https://burners.me/2016/02/03/burning-man-tickets-1600/#comment-132398 ) was that more careless finger exercises?”

            that was you failing to comprehend english. our camp never paid anyone off. the virgins who got gift tickets for working on art projects (unrelated to my camp) didn’t pay anyone off, they were willing to help build the city.

            “Sorry, Frank, but I am putting all that ticketing game effort, particulary the slave labor part you think is so great, into doing something that is personally creative.”

            i’m sorry to hear you think contributing to art projects is slave effort, but like i said before, i loved helping out on the playa, and i signed up before i even knew they had gift tickets. the virgins who got the free tickets also was not doing it for the tickets. if you think helping art projects is a slave effort, or there’s something very uncreative with team-based art projects, maybe coachella would be a better party for you.

          • Frank says, “Your solution favors old-time burners and not recent contributions. The vibrancy of the playa depends on people who have the energy to do hard work for this coming burn.”

            You did not read my legacy ticketing. It simply replaces the Borg decisison on ticketing with burners, and in fact fosters creative discussions between legacy and new burners.

            Frank says, “And you assume DGS tickets hands in the hands of “random chance, wealth and subjective decisions”, which is pure conjecture, just like your continued baseless and insulting insinuation that we paid off the org to get in DGS. most DGS tickets are indeed distributed to old-timers.””

            Again, bad reading. The DS tix are in “subjective decisisons.” Read the thread. “Random chance” is the main ticket sales (with some “subjective decisions” on who gets a ticket token). And “wealth” is buying tickets at premium prices. In fact, “random chance, wealth and subjective decisions” are the only ways to get tix. If effort was in there, they would have public criteria and scoring so all could see any focus their efforts, as well as discuss the criteria.

            Frank, like a beaten spouse, you are in a dysfunctional “codependency dance” with the Borg. You dance in hopes of getting the capricious (subjective decision) reward of tickets.

      • There’s always a flood of tickets near the event as people who bought as many as they could out of fear realize they don’t need them. If you want to go, you can get a ticket. If you panic, you can always pay scalpers, tho never necessary. That’s how it always works out. I agree the tickets distribution mechanism sucks, but have you got any better solutions or just criticisms?

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        • Realist: “There’s always a flood of tickets near the event as people who bought as many as they could out of fear realize they don’t need them. If you want to go, you can get a ticket. If you panic, you can always pay scalpers, tho never necessary. That’s how it always works out.”

          Yes, but getting tix at the last minute pretty much keeps you from being an important part of a theme camp/MV/playa art. Unless it’s just the right situation, pretty much keeps you from doing any planned participation.

          Realist: “I agree the tickets distribution mechanism sucks, but have you got any better solutions or just criticisms?”

          Sure. Though I have described it before many times, this time I gave it a name, “Legacy Ticketing.” It’s in this thread:
          https://burners.me/2016/02/03/burning-man-tickets-1600/#comment-132364
          https://burners.me/2016/02/03/burning-man-tickets-1600/#comment-132374

          You could start out with 5,000 tix, and if it works, expand it.

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  14. Really surprised they didn’t prevent people buying a ticket(s) in presale from also getting more of them in the main sale. Provided people can fork over the presale cost for a couple months their best bet is to buy a presale ticket, then get a cheaper ticket in the main sale, so they can then sell off the more expensive one. Worst case they end up not being able to afford the higher presale ticket and offload it to someone that wants it. Not really “Burnery” but what is these days really, everyone just wants a ticket to the party and will do whatever they can to get one.

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    • People who did this in 2015 would have done quite well. Vehicle passes were going at 10x face value at one point.

      Of course, anyone who gets a free or $190 ticket and sells it for $1200 is doing even better. “Face value”, all the ads will say…

      Reply

  16. Burnersxxx,

    Without the “World’s Biggest Guest List”, how exactly do you think all the theme camp infrastructure shows up magically at BRC with just a few days of build time?

    Theme camps need DGS tickets because we started BM planning about 2 weeks ago. The DGS ticket allocation are for theme camp leadership roles, because you can’t lead a theme camp if you don’t even know if you’re going. And yet still, the DGS ticket allocations aren’t enough to set up an entire camp. Every theme camp I talked to (including ours) had this huge cloud of uncertainty over our heads for 2015, because camp build was understaffed, because plenty of veterans who wanted to help got screwed over in the main sale.

    So yeah, the extra 5000 tickets DGS might just make our lives a little less stressful. So we can focus on building things so everyone has a great time. But obviously an armchair quarterback like you won’t give two fucks. You’re just obsessed with spinning every change as a BMOrg conspiracy.

    Dick.

    Reply

    • Just click the link, Dick – “the World’s Biggest Guest List”, highlighted in blue. It explains my view on the DGS, which has not changed in the 4 years since I wrote that post. However, Burning Man has: you will notice that every prediction I made back then in that post has now come true: more heat on sound camps and art cars with DJs, and MUCH higher ticket prices.

      If the guest list is a necessary evil, but for the good of the community, then let’s be transparent about it. Same with MV approvals and EA passes.

      It’s hard to see what part of this story you think is a conspiracy theory. BMOrg raised prices again, FACT. I do note that the “World’s Biggest Guest List” claim has now been overtaken by a DJ in India – although all tickets were free, so it’s not quite an apples-to-apples comparison.

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      • do you even burn anymore, fuckface? did you just compare theme camp leadership who spend months of planning of their own personal time to help make BRC what it is, to a bunch of consumers signing up to listen to Hardwell?

        and I did click on your link, and your lack of logic dumbfounds me:

        “This restricts supply, and also increases the exclusivity of the event – further increasing demand.” -> Why is this a bad thing? It should be rewritten as -> “This prioritizes ticket supply to veterans to have proven to given higher than average contributions to the city before, and are further likely to do so, so the city isn’t just an empty wasteland of RVs and tents.”

        “It also makes BMorg the Door Bitch with the world’s biggest guest list at the world’s best party. They get to choose which camps are in and which camps are out. ” -> yes, Einstein, this is what organizers do. this is not some crowd-sourced process. did you confuse Burning Man with Wikipedia?

        and i hate to deliver you some bad news, Nostradamus, there is no drama with the sound camps and art cars. there’s no shortage of good music on the playa, rockstar librarian isn’t getting shorter and lamer every year. i know you’re waiting for another dancetronauts or OT incident to blow things out of proportion though: after all broken clocks needs to bide their time.

        and finally, what the fuck do you exactly do for the burner community besides sowing cynicism all year round? how exactly has the BM community in the default world or the playa been a better place because of what you write? BMOrg has had many fuckups and they’re not perfect, but you’re not the checks and balances that you think you are.

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          • yes, i’ve helped built BRC many times for ungrateful little shits like you who don’t add anything positive to the city or its culture. and because you run a tabloid blog on burning man, somehow you believe your opinion carries more weight?

          • of course way less than a DPW guy. but i know i’ve done more than you.

            are you going to keep ducking the question about your value add to the burn, other than flinging shit in every general direction on your blog?

          • speaking of years of attendance, i know of virgins who get gift tickets for outsized contributions on art projects. if you’ve burned a number of years and your only shot at a ticket is through main sales, you should be ashamed of being a professional tourist.

          • “i know of virgins who get gift tickets for outsized contributions on art projects. if you’ve burned a number of years and your only shot at a ticket is through main sales, you should be ashamed of being a professional tourist.”

            WOW! You guys on the good side of the DGS are seriously delusional. Glad y’all will be at the same place this year so the rest of us can stay away.

          • “WOW! You guys on the good side of the DGS are seriously delusional. Glad y’all will be at the same place this year so the rest of us can stay away.”

            yes, please, please credit hard work as delusions. do your thing. we all get the burn we deserve.

        • Yeah, gotta agree with burnersxxx, here. Curation at Burning Man should be kept to a minimum, as the fact that the participants create the entertainment/art separate from the event organizers is the very fucking point of Burning Man.

          Reply

          • To give them credit, I think a strong argument can be made that crowdsourcing came out of Burning Man. They didn’t quite invent the concept, but there is an evolutionary thread from the Communiversity and the Diggers to the tech industry and couch surfing. The ideas of “stone soup” and “the commons” are important within certain sectors of the tech community.

            Wikipedia was started in 2001, based on an idea proposed by Richard Stallman (free software guru) in 2000. The Wikipedia History page tracks the evolution of an online encyclopedia back to RIT’s Rick Gates’ 1993 “Interpedia” proposal on UseNet, but personally I would credit Vannevar Bush, even Jules Verne and H.G. Wells with this idea.

          • they did try “minimum” curation, that was 2012 before Directed Group Sales was created. and chaos ensued when everyone realized a pure lottery process would mean nothing gets built on the playa.

            so now theme camps or participants with a history of adding value gets priority. not because we’re VIPs, but because some of us plan on our gift for the playa all-year round.

            it’s quite obvious to me that people who think DGS is some kind of curated guest list has never given much back to the city, or understand the amount of shit that needs to get done in advance.

          • “it’s quite obvious to me that people who think DGS is some kind of curated guest list has never given much back to the city, or understand the amount of shit that needs to get done in advance.”

            Well, it’s obvious to me that you are on the “good” side of the DGS, and don’t realize how much others have given to BRC and the crap that we need to do in advance. Have fun with the cool kids, but don’t forget to lock your bike.

        • When you are on the guest list your perspective is quite different, as it is if you want to be on the list and are not, as it is if you don’t care for places with a guest list at the door. Or places with a line for that matter.

          Reply

          • You’re right, I have a very different perspective. My perspective is that every burner I know who’s:
            (A) willing to give back to the community
            (B) not a prick to work with
            has no trouble finding tickets.

            I’ve worked hard enough and helped out enough theme camps and art projects these years that I had *multiple* invites to DGS last year (no I can’t use more than one invite). On top of the DGS invites, I also got a gift ticket for helping out an art project, which I gifted to a friend who deserved to go.

            And even if i turn down those DGS invites and the gift ticket for whatever reason, I know I can still get dibs on tickets being resold, for reasons that has nothing to do exclusivity. Because I’ve made enough friends in the BM community, and my friends will look out for me when extra tickets are available on FB, just as I will look out for them.

            You guys are welcome to push forward this exclusive velvety-rope narrative all you want, but if you’re having trouble getting tickets, it’s only because you’re being a little too touristy. Time to complain less and participate more.

          • Did I say, “When you are on the guest list your perspective is quite different” already?

            “…but if you’re having trouble getting tickets, it’s only because you’re being a little too touristy. Time to complain less and participate more.”

            And just how do you “particpate” if you don’t get tickets? Unless you consider shilling for the Borg participating.

            You know what we do to participate? …When we are not doing our burn thing at other burns (where we don’t have to lock our bikes)… We participate here to help the burners that don’t have the benefit of chance, wealth, or countenance of the cool kids like you.

          • “And just how do you “particpate” if you don’t get tickets? Unless you consider shilling for the Borg participating.”

            plenty of art projects have gift tickets or half priced tickets. theme camps are always in need of people to go early to build their camp. we had campmates who were ticketless but they were committed to helping us out, so we found tickets for them by july. not by kissing ass with the org, or not with any special connections, but to ask our friends to keep their eyes open on FB for people who are selling BM tickets because they can’t go. a regional BM FB group has a ticket for sell? we try to grab it as fast as we can. you make it out as if we get our tickets through a phone call to Larry, but a lot of it is just hard work, perseverance and luck. like i said before, i’ve yet to meet a burner who deserves to go because of their outsized contributions to art projects or theme camps and nobody can find them a ticket.

            “We participate here to help the burners that don’t have the benefit of chance, wealth, or countenance of the cool kids like you.”

            Go ahead and pretend the deck is stacked against you. Go ahead and pretend we bought our way into the “guest list”. Go ahead and pretend we’re “cool” and we had tickets fall on our laps. If that makes you feel better.

          • I prefer to put my efforts into my theme camp than into getting tix. But you seem to relish this whole ticketing game, pretending it is all based on the quality of your “participation” as judged by you – which includes dumping enough cash on the right people, buying you out of the tourist label.

            Whatever did you do back before 2011, when just “anyone” could come in. That must have been so very frustrating.

          • no i don’t enjoy this ticketing game, it’s annoying as fuck that friends don’t know for certain if they can get tickets until the last minute. but the reality is that not everyone who wants to go to BRC can get in anymore. and you or burnersxxx or other haters have yet to offer a better solution that places the vibrancy of BRC as a top priority.

            and you got the causality backwards, I don’t put in extra work to get easy tickets. I happen to love build week, and I happen to love meeting new burners from very different circles through new art project collaborations. i’ve been helping out with build before I got DGS invites or gift tickets, because I understand the city doesn’t build itself. not having to worry about my ticket situation is just a nice bonus.

            you can keep lying to yourself we somehow get tickets because we paid off someone, even though i’ve already told you the many ways to legitimately get a normal priced ticket. we paid off no one, we worked our asses off. and we still gift our parties and booze (through fundraisers), while knowing that there are people like you enjoying our gifts while thinking we didn’t earned our way to BRC through hard work and just paid someone off. we keep doing it, because thankfully people who are grateful and positive vastly outnumber people like you and burnersxxx.

            the sooner your get rid of your defeatist mentality with the ticket situation, the sooner you’ll realize there’s enough meritocracy in BRC, and people who help build the city are rewarded for their hard work. but i also understand it’s easier to just throw your hands up in the air and pretend others bought their way into BRC.

          • Frank said “…and you or burnersxxx or other haters have yet to offer a better solution that places the vibrancy of BRC as a top priority.”

            Yes I did. ( https://burners.me/2016/02/03/burning-man-tickets-1600/#comment-132364 ) ( https://burners.me/2016/02/03/burning-man-tickets-1600/#comment-132374 )
            Have actually said this before in several comment threads.

            Frank said “you can keep lying to yourself we somehow get tickets because we paid off someone ….while thinking we didn’t earned our way to BRC through hard work and just paid someone off. ”

            When you commented, ““i know of virgins who get gift tickets for outsized contributions on art projects,” ( https://burners.me/2016/02/03/burning-man-tickets-1600/#comment-132398 ) was that more careless finger exercises?

            Sorry, Frank, but I am putting all that ticketing game effort, particulary the slave labor part you think is so great, into doing something that is personally creative.

          • “Yes I did. ( https://burners.me/2016/02/03/burning-man-tickets-1600/#comment-132364 ) ( https://burners.me/2016/02/03/burning-man-tickets-1600/#comment-132374 )
            Have actually said this before in several comment threads.”

            Your solution favors old-time burners and not recent contributions. The vibrancy of the playa depends on people who have the energy to do hard work for this coming burn. And you assume DGS tickets hands in the hands of “random chance, wealth and subjective decisions”, which is pure conjecture, just like your continued baseless and insulting insinuation that we paid off the org to get in DGS. most DGS tickets are indeed distributed to old-timers.

            “Frank said “you can keep lying to yourself we somehow get tickets because we paid off someone ….while thinking we didn’t earned our way to BRC through hard work and just paid someone off. ”

            When you commented, ““i know of virgins who get gift tickets for outsized contributions on art projects,” ( https://burners.me/2016/02/03/burning-man-tickets-1600/#comment-132398 ) was that more careless finger exercises?”

            that was you failing to comprehend english. our camp never paid anyone off. the virgins who got gift tickets for working on art projects (unrelated to my camp) didn’t pay anyone off, they were willing to help build the city.

            “Sorry, Frank, but I am putting all that ticketing game effort, particulary the slave labor part you think is so great, into doing something that is personally creative.”

            i’m sorry to hear you think contributing to art projects is slave effort, but like i said before, i loved helping out on the playa, and i signed up before i even knew they had gift tickets. the virgins who got the free tickets also was not doing it for the tickets. if you think helping art projects is a slave effort, or there’s something very uncreative with team-based art projects, maybe coachella would be a better party for you.

          • https://youtu.be/rsRjQDrDnY8

            Frank said, “I’ve worked hard enough and helped out enough theme camps and art projects these years that I had *multiple* invites to DGS last year (no I can’t use more than one invite). On top of the DGS invites, I also got a gift ticket for helping out an art project…”

            Frank said, “Go ahead and pretend we’re “cool” and we had tickets fall on our laps. If that makes you feel better.”

          • I’m with Frank on this one. Years attended should not be a metric, it’s what you doing for the current burn. Although past history I’m sure comes into play just due to human nature. I’m kind of disappointed that Nomad is arguing in favor of some kinds of legacy ticket program. It seem you’re really just bummed that YOU aren’t guaranteed a ticket anymore and that a solution would be a program that guarantees a person like you a ticket.

            Frank, I agree that the 2012 lottery was an experiment in limited curation. I’m 100% in favor of that model, it would absolutely shake up the burn, create some chaos and result in the kind of surprises on the playa that used to occur before things became somewhat cemented and people expect to see certain attractions year in and year out. That’s boring, to me. Would it be difficult to plan big camps and installations? Hell yes. I’d trade that kind of freshness over “big art” and crap like that any day.

        • “This prioritizes ticket supply to veterans to have proven to given higher than average contributions to the city before, and are further likely to do so, so the city isn’t just an empty wasteland of RVs and tents.”>

          Nope, not at all. This presupposes that the Borg is all-seeing and all-knowing. They are not. It should be rewritten as -> “This prioritizes ticket supply to people the Borg knows or has heard of, because they can.”

          Want to buy a used bike cheap? Oh, the bike lock is new and extra charge.

          Reply

    • “Theme camps need DGS tickets because we started BM planning about 2 weeks ago…”

      Well, we started our theme camp planning over 8 frakking years ago, but got tanked because we were not big and physically dangerous (though psychologically dangerous is another issue) to get attention of the cool kids. One year the cool kids even said we were a “no-show,” because our Borg placement person could not be bothered to come out in the dust storm that we had to set up in. Some camp members were confounded when they checked the placement map and asked at Center Camp, until they found us a street away from placement, actually in a better place for traffic.

      So taking our experience as a lesson, I imagine most creative concept camps of our size cannot get in BRC, and I have not tried since. Two members did do some playa art in later years, but got their bikes stolen. We have moved on to other burns because the old Burning Man is gone. 🙁

      Reply

      • I’m sorry to hear about your camp. I’m sorry those bikes were stolen. But you should know that “famous” theme camps don’t get a free pass. Every year it’s a stressful situation for everyone, for every camp.

        Why do you think dancetronauts were punished? Why do you think OT had to move their camp off Esplanade last year? Being famous doesn’t guarantee you better treatment at BRC.

        But of course burnersxxx wouldn’t give BMOrg fair credit for not giving dancetronauts/OT special treatment. Some typical spin at burners.me:

        BMOrg does something that benefits some-famous-camp -> ***BMOrg is playing favorites with theme camps! OMG guest lists!!!***

        BMOrg does something that hurts some-famous-camp -> ***BMOrg is suffocating our beloved camps! OMG death of our culture!***

        Reply

        • Interesting deflection from the core issue to Burnersxxx editorial position. BTW, dear reader, if you followed that path, there will be a little bag of Cheerios before nap time.

          If you care to get back to the logic line, do let us know.

          Reply

          • There’s no deflection there. I showed sympathy, and I also used dancetronauts and OT to make a point that famous camps don’t get a free pass. We have gotten screwed by the Org in the past for placement too, but we don’t get all defeatist and jaded about the whole process. We try harder the next year.

          • So when you typed –

            “But of course burnersxxx wouldn’t give BMOrg fair credit for not giving dancetronauts/OT special treatment. Some typical spin at burners.me: BMOrg does something that benefits some-famous-camp -> ***BMOrg is playing favorites with theme camps! OMG guest lists!!!*** BMOrg does something that hurts some-famous-camp -> ***BMOrg is suffocating our beloved camps! OMG death of our culture!*** ”

            – you were just exercizing your fingers and forgot to delete it before hitting Post Comment.

          • 1580 blog posts and an FAQ wasn’t enough. Now I have to give an an audit trail of 18 years of participation to this clown. Does he want receipts too?

          • 18 years of participation, or 18 years of touristing? When you reviewed Burning Man on TripAdvisor during your earlier years, were they less whiny?

          • I countered your point, and I made an additional point on burnersxxx’s biased and cynical narrative. I apologize if you are incapable of carrying multiple arguments in a single post. Or maybe you don’t understand the word “deflection”, because all the “cool kids” bought out all the dictionaries at your local bookstore.

            I can put the figurative blinders back on your face if you feel like it’s a deflection.

          • And I addressed the core issue twice, that no theme camps get a free pass. With examples. But you are welcome to continue to ironically accuse me of deflecting from the core issue.

          • “no theme camps get a free pass”

            No, they impress the Borg, and get DS tix, or fail to impress the Borg and don’t get DS tix. The key point is that DS tix selection criteria are not public and scored, and a public accounting of to whom the DS tix are given is never made. It is a secret process and decision.

          • “The core issue being population up 25%, tickets up 223% since announcing “transition””

            that was not the core issue with my discussion with nomad. core issue being his camp got screwed for placement because his camp wasn’t “cool” enough or he didn’t pay off the org. my point being that everyone gets screwed at some point, famous camps or not.

          • “No, they impress the Borg, and get DS tix, or fail to impress the Borg and don’t get DS tix. The key point is that DS tix selection criteria are not public and scored, and a public accounting of to whom the DS tix are given is never made. It is a secret process and decision.”

            ahahahaha. i don’t think the org is infallible, and no doubt there are fuckups behind the scenes where tickets are given to people who don’t deserve it. but your suggestion to make everything public will just turn it into a very public and unproductive shit show.

            i’ve already told you there are many ways people get tickets outside of DGS. asking friends to rely on word of mouth on FB, for instance. contributing to art projects, for instance. but i guess making friends on the playa or participation to art is too much slave labor for you. enjoy your own little world where the only participation you have to show at burns is “i was already burning before everyone else showed up”

  17. >we will issue a refund for the 9% collected

    And if you believe that, I have a few thousand acres in the Nevada desert to sell you.

    Reply

  19. Selling 25,000 directed group sales tickets is most appropriate in due of the BMOrg must rebuild the Burner community after three years of 30,000 newbies each year in the place of many prior Burners, of 35% to 40% newbies each year, and solely near to 25,000 people of more than two prior years on the playa each year. Might the directed group sale have been 25,000 within 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015, the Burner community might not have been so pissed in these regards.

    Might Gate, BRC Rangers, and DPW, be permitted to gain DGS tickets for their partners, and owners, and crews, of mutant vehicles be permitted the DGS tickets within 2016, my belief is that might be awesome. The 25,000 directed group sales tickets will permit more tickets to remain within the Burner community.

    2012 – 10,000 DGS tickets
    2013 – 10,000 DGS tickets
    2014 – 15,000 DGS tickets
    2015 – 20,000 DGS tickets
    2016 – 25,000 DGS tickets

    Reply

  20. Why is it that most people think that they have to attend THE event. Anyone ever considered of thinking out of the cat box?

    Be your own event. Be your own riot. Stop whining about that which was destined to be an inevitable cluster phuck.

    Just another Glastonbury in the making.

    Reply

    • I was feeling very burnery today, and it was nice to be grateful to people you don’t know for just being who they are and sharing their lives. If anything, my day-to-day life has been illuminated by the time in BRC, and the postmortem of the decline as we have discussed in this blog. The Borgs you find in life are easier to spot from this ‘Decline and Fall of Burning Man.’

      The only constant is change, and the main challenge is to learn. Oh, and dogma is the enemy of learning.

      Reply

  22. I don’t see the expensive tickets as for the super elite, I see it as a response to scalping (and the delta between box office price and market value). If the value of BM tickets is $1000+, I’d rather the extra money go towards BM art and expenses than into scalpers pockets.

    Reply

    • It would be great if another $1.2 million got spent on art because of this new patronage class. I don’t expect that to happen.

      As for scalpers, staff can get $1000+ tickets for $190. This system is designed to encourage the secondary market, not prevent it.

      Reply

    • We owe you our gratitude for all you have done for Burner culture and for the Burner community.

      A big part of the theme of 2016 is Larry desires his rich mates to pay more of the costs of the artists, in the place of the BMOrg paying more than the 3% of tickets sales towards the costs of the artists, solely $13 of each $390 ticket.

      In regards of the $190 tickets, prior of 2015, all whom gained these tickets needed to go to Will Call for the tickets. In due of within 2014, Will Call had near to eight hour queues, thus, within 2015, the BMOrg permitted the $190 tickets to be mailed to volunteers. Purposed to halt scalping, my belief is all people whom had $190 tickets, and free volunteer and artists tickets, were of the need to show their letter, and ID, at the Gate to enter BRC.

      Reply

      • None of the extra cost of the $990 or $1200 tickets is purposed towards the costs of the artists, Larry desires rich Patrons to donate towards the costs of the art projects.

        Reply

        • Exactly what you said. These more expensive tickets are just a money grab. From the ticket info- “The 1,000 tickets sold at $1,200 each will raise $1.2 million. So what does Burning Man do with $1.2 million? Last year we issued $1.2 million in grants directly to artists through Black Rock City Honoraria. Add to that an additional $1.8 million in support services, and the 2015 BRC art budget topped $3 million.” They’re inferring that the tickets sold at $1200 will go to art. But that’s not what they’re actually saying. They’ll be getting an additional $1.2 million in ticket sales AND they just happened to spend that much on art last year. No mention of an increase in spending on art from the “Leonardo Da Vinci art tickets”. But they sure do want to make it look that way.

          Reply

          • Their statements in regards to the art are most misleading, they are doing attempts to pretend that this is in due of ticket sales, which is most incorrect. The 2014 990 form, and BMorg statements in these regards, of which, burnersxxx did an awesome analysis in regards of the art, stated of

            2014 Achievements for Burning Man Arts include:

            BRC Honoraria – $827,000 in grants to 80 playa artists, with an additional $675,000 in in-kind installation and support services.

            BRAF Civic Art Grants – $217,836 in grants, including fulfillment of a NEA granted project to Our Town in Fernley …

            BRAF Global Art Grants – $70,000 to 15 arts projects worldwide …

            Within 2014, the support services include the salaries of BMOrg directors, and employees, in due of ministering the arts program, the BMOrg is including grants, by others, in the manner of the NEA, $125,000 was donated to the playa artists, by others, in due of a kickstarter manner of software upon the Burning Man website within 2014, and donations, by others, purposed for the arts, including of donations in due of the Artuminal. In addendum, within 2015, the BMOrg is taking credit in regards of many art crews gained free volunteer tickets, of which they are most deserving, for building their art on the playa prior of the start of the festival, of which, it was of no cost to the BMOrg in due of volunteer tickets are not counted within the 70,000 permitted population of BRC.

            Might the BMOrg desire to be honest, they would state their 2016 budget, from ticket sales, for paying BRC honoraria to the playa artists in due of the costs of the art, of which it was solely $700,000 within 2014, solely $10 of each $390 ticket, but Larry desires his rich Patron mates to pay the costs of the artists within 2016. I am curious in regards of might the new artists desiring to gain 2016 BRC art grants know of solely near to one third of their costs will be paid in due of cash gained by the BMOrg in due of ticket sales.

      • The $990 and $1200 tickets are purposed towards their rich mates and people whom can afford the tickets, view the gigapan picture of 2015 Burning Man for the many RV and hexayurt camps constructed by their Outside Site Services vendors.

        Within 2015, each person was permitted to purchase six $800 presale tickets, thus two couples, organizing a play and play camp, were permitted to buy 24 tickets for their campers. A difficulty within 2015 was the camps whom bought the $800 presale tickets did attempts to sell the $800 tickets, and buy the $390 tickets, at cost, from Burners, halting other Burners from buying the tickets at $390.

        Reply

    • John needs to take off his blinders. His responses are so predictable. If he’s not paid by the Borg he should be.

      Reply

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