Burning Man Could Be Moving To Utah [Update]

So says the CEO, in a recent hour-long interview on the Positive Head podcast.

From VICE:

“The biggest danger facing Burning Man right now is that the State of Nevada has levied an entertainment tax,” Goodell stated further. “We still believe that we don’t fit under a form of entertainment. Frankly, we’re not a Las Vegas show. We’re not a car race or a concert in a stadium.”

Goodell claims that the Silver State is enforcing a massive 9% entertainment tax on the Burning Man project, crippling revenue flows and long-term sustainability. “We’re not able to absorb that,” she said, before balefully concluding by saying, “That’s the thing right now that makes us look longingly towards Utah or any other state that might not have levied that.”

Their sold out event can’t absorb an increase in Ticket Prices from $390 to $425? File that one under things that make you go Hmmmm. They seemed to have no problem jacking Vehicle Pass prices 25% from last year. Perhaps the real issue may have something to do with them spending so much money on lawyers and accountants in order to become “tax exempt”, only to have politicians route around them by implementing a new tax. More lobbying and lawyers required, where does it end? (Hint: it never ends).

Fest300 asks Will Burning Man Be On The Playa Next Year? and then takes it further, intrigued by the suggestion that we’ve outgrown the desert and it’s time for some permanent infrastructure:

Goodell continues, “We’re running out of space on the Black Rock desert, so we’re doing everything we can” to nurture regional Burns.

And, right above the 1-hour mark, Goodell brings up the intriguing possibility of Burning Man’s first permanent structure beyond its office in San Francisco: “For the long-term survival of the culture, we are going to need a physical space…We will, as time goes by, find it hard to only be in the Black Rock Desert. We may need to find a place that would allow for infrastructure. I’m certain that’s in our future.”

Marian shed some more light on what’s behind the Dance Music Zone. It’s to make Robot Heart “more free”, and because of a “long standing” dispute with Dancetronauts:

“Burning Man is not a festival,” Goodell was early to iterate. “A festival, for many people, now means stages and food vendors and having your comforts more taken care of. We’re definitely not interested in providing a typical festival atmosphere.”

That statement may be a tougher sell to the much maligned, but now-entrenched upper crusters who glamp amidst luxury and a minimal sense of radicalism that sits starkly against traditional Burner tenets.

“We have watched the change in the type of people that come to Burning Man,” Goodell acknowledged. “We’re not gonna get in front of certain things and force issues. We are gonna nurture the process so we all get the best results. Burning Man is an experiment in temporary community, and we’re the stewards of that process.

Time for a change? Bear Kittay, Marian Goodell and Danger Ranger. // Photo by Christoper Michel

Time for a change? Bear Kittay, Marian Goodell and Danger Ranger. // Photo by Christoper Michel

This year, that process involves stewarding some of the rowdier art car dance parties away from Black Rock City. Goodell acknowledged that longtime Burner crew The Dancetronauts were disinvited to the Playa in 2015 after a long-standing dispute with the jumpsuited spacemen, while the Opulent Temple camp was denied camp placement after dropping their levels of camp interactivity.

Made more notable after the famous debacle last year in which Skrillex and Diplo dropped “Turn Down For What?” to a bemused audience of hippies, is the institution of the Deep Playa Music Zone, a distantly situated area in which art cars like Robot Heart will be more free to post up and blast electronic dance music for as long and as loud as they need, want, or are physically able to.

Damian Lazarus at Robot Heart. Image: VICE

Damian Lazarus at Robot Heart. Image: VICE

Goodell was at the center of this change after an encounter with the untz last year left her reeling: “I was one of the people who was awakened at 3 in the morning by the sound of thumping music. My trailer was vibrating! Several of us came out, shocked, and couldn’t understand, even though I’ve been doing this for 19 years. We got in the cart and went out and it was an tart car facing its speakers towards the camp. It was past the man and it woke me!”

[Source]

Hmmm again. This doesn’t sound like it was Dancetronauts. So why was it them who was punished? What happened to this other “too loud” art car – anything?

And what’s the CEO of Burning Man doing trying to sleep at 3am anyway?


 

[Update 8/19/15 1:06pm]

She’s certainly not building her own camp. About ten minutes into the interview she completely justifies paid sherpas – as long as they get to eat at the same dinner table as the other campers, rather than “staff” versus “guests”, an “us and them sort of thing”. She states “The culture of Burning Man can really flourish with money…[for example] to bring great musicians to your camp”.

Stereolambda has made a very interesting observation in the comments here.

This certainly adds context around why the org is suddenly asking sound camps not to list DJ line-ups. It seemed odd at the time that they would suddenly come out with this policy after so many years, but now it is clear they are trying to make sure they can argue that Burning Man is not entertainment, and therefore not subject to the entertainment tax.

Could there be a link between a new “entertainment tax” and a new “crackdown on EDM”? Or just more coincidences?

“we don’t believe we’re a form of entertainment. We’re not a Las Vegas show or a car race or a concert in a stadium”

 

80 comments on “Burning Man Could Be Moving To Utah [Update]

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  4. No matter how you package EDM, it is absolutely not entertainment. It’s computer generated beats that in order to appreciate you have to be on drugs.

    EDM sucks and if they could somehow reduce it’s presence at the Burn, everyone would benefit.

    Liked by 1 person

    • How about creating a new burn event in the Alvord Desert? By doing a reboot you avoid the excess ticketing demand problems, the EDM crowd, as well as the bucket-listers and fly-ins. Recreate and rediscover. Reject the bad and expand the good. Try for the spontaneity of selling tkts at the gate. Look for an all-volunteer event, including management. Take some notes from Transformus – I am sure their BoD would be glad to help.

      If you proceed, I would readily volunteer for several shifts, and bring my theme camp.

      Like

  5. Pingback: Burning Man, Bugs, and the CIA | Burners.Me: Me, Burners and The Man

  6. Really, Utah….perhaps the most conservative state in the Nation – Gallup last year said it was the 4th most conservative. Finally, liberalized its rules on alcohol purchases in 2002 so it could get the Winter Olympics; 62% of its population is Mormon; tough stance on drugs; public nudity is illegal and enforced; very interventionist child protection services — if you think the new local sheriff in Gerlach might be gunning for Burners; go to Utah. A 10% entertainment tax for a fairly Laissez-faire legal and social environment — cheap at twice the price.

    Like

    • the 2015 Utah regional ‘burn’ was a permitted event, AND nudity was… PERMITTED. yeah, Utah is pretty conservative, BUT, honestly – it’s not as you say. Out in the west desert, one can “abide” a great festival.

      Like

  7. “…we don’t believe we’re a form of entertainment. We’re not a Las Vegas show or a car race or a concert in a stadium”

    “…The culture of Burning Man can really flourish with money…[for example] to bring great musicians to your camp”.

    OK, the difference here entirely escapes me. Better cut out all arts grants and put that money into the lawyers budget.

    Like

  8. “I was one of the people who was awakened at 3 in the morning by the sound of thumping music. My trailer was vibrating! […] it woke me!”

    Ermerfuggingerd. It was, like, three in the morning and, you know, these kids were playing music, like, real loud and, well heck, I didn’t even like the music they were playing, if it actually was music, and it took me an age to get back to sleep and I was heckidy tired in the morning. We need some gosh darned rules around here, I mean, rilly, this is the durned suburbs, where do they think they are? Burningman?

    Liked by 1 person

  9. I’m not the least bit surprised that the state is coming after BM for more taxes. I mean somebody has got to pay for that army of overly equipped cops that descend on it every year and with tens of millions of dollars being generated through ticket sales and vehicle passes the state wants a bigger cut. The days of trying to pass BM off as just camping with art is getting harder to do especially with the mainstream media and their splashy stories about Skrillex and Diplo turning down the what, luxury VIP camps, celebrities and frolicking silicon valley billionaires.

    And Utah? Really? How do you think the event would fare in a state run by puritan Mormons? And personally Im not at all fussed about attending an event with permanent infrastructure. Kind of goes against everything BM stands or should I say stood for.

    Bottom line: Get ready for $450-$500 tickets and higher vehicle fees for starters. Or just not go to BRC and hit up your regional instead its that simple.

    Like

    • Your observations illustrate the need for the BOrg to clearly define their burn needs, and then have various venues bid on hosting and getting the financial benefit. But sadly it also highlights the problem with that: surrendering control. Because of the BOrg’s NPD behavior, they cannot surrender any control under any circumstances. even to a bidder to meet their needs. (That’s why they pay so much for legal and other overhead expenses, choosing control over any economy.) Just like they always surrender the interests of the burners to extend or preserve their control, they must feel they control all aspects of “their” burn.

      And so there appears no happy answer here in any context, because the BOrg is fundamentally at odds with the crowd-sourced creativity spirit of Burning Man.

      But Bounce, the BOrg are gratified that in your answer you used their “regional” term, implying a burn event still under their control.

      Like

  10. “We’re not a Las Vegas show”

    This is fascinating to me, because my comment on the playa just last year was that it was feeling more and more like Las Vegas with all of the blinky lights, fly-in DJ entertainment and concierge and VIP services readily available ( especially provided by a member of the Board of Directors ).

    So how is is really different?

    Like

  11. Talk about treadless credibility, is anyone still listening to “corporate executive” (officer) Marian of BORGionaires club?

    Seriously, if you could pull the sweaty work notes out of the satin pockets of her dusty pants, they would read something like:

    – Talk to legal about what’s safe to say

    – Talk to PR about what I can say that will sound true for the next two weeks while legal figures out if we can grease, cheat, or sue our way out of paying taxes

    – Tell all the pissed off Djs to shut up, or we’ll use them for shooting skeet at our one of our radical exclusion fundraisers – like we care what they say anyway?

    – Ask PR lead if my new talking points make my butt look big, bitch better say no

    – Talk to finance about juicing up the vehicle fee next year, and to operations about how long we can delay any hard facts on what we’re actually doing with it

    – Tell HR to add another zero to my paycheck. If we’re running out of money, my five million just isn’t going to be enough to last me until I get a job at Coachella, (get Kanye’s number!)

    – Tell HR to lower the salary ceiling on the new suck-it-and-see worker bee position, we have free bagels so why do they need 40k in San Francisco!

    – Have assistants pick me up my stuff, and if that dry cleaner bitch says my pants must have shrunk again, kill her!

    – Talk to legal – why the hell haven’t you shut down burners.me – those trash talking dirt hippies! Don’t give me any of that free speech shit this time, I know bullshit when I hear it!

    – Check in with events and make sure they order enough champagne for the P2P playa socials at First Camp!

    Liked by 2 people

    • And:

      – Tell Will to try another round of “You have some good ideas” invitations to see if we can trick those social media trolls to show up at our office to serve with papers, or at least get some personal details for leverage;

      – Send feelers to Trump to see if he wants some tix and free airport access.

      Like

  12. Utah talk and banning sound camp DJ lists are posturing IMHO. The “event” now has concierge serviced clients and charter air flights. Hell yes, NV considers BM entertainment and NV will exercise their right to tax (feed from the trough). BMorg can’t afford to go to $450 tickets is so much BS too. Hell, all businesses pass through fees, taxes, surcharges to the consumers whether nonprofits or for profit. Food for thought: How many FREE museums, zoos, or public venues exist? I don’t have a number but I am pretty sure it’s not a lot.

    As far as a permanent location with support infrastructure, well, that is the next logical step, and exactly what the Ren Festival events did in the 80s – 90s. Hey, BMorg can make BM NV free again to the peasants that come in “costume.” Heck, some of the old hippy communes figured this out back in the day and charged entrance fees to tour/sight-see old hippies in their natural habitats, *cough* I mean art/nature colonies turned pseudo-museums. If nudist colonies could charge like this they would, oops, bad analogy, they have membership fees. Well, I digress, my point is this trend is nothing new folks – counter cultures become acculturated, and new counter cultures occur. Maybe this will be Regionals (If allowed autonomy, otherwise I don’t think so), or something different (thinks FF spin-offs).

    Just my five cents worth, now I’m off to fuel the diesel genny and dust-off the PV panels… 😉

    The only great comment I read was directing the revenue to the Indians, and reservation land would get some of the agencies out of the feeding trough.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. “About ten minutes into the interview she completely justifies paid sherpas – as long as they get to eat at the same dinner table as the other campers, rather than “staff” versus “guests”, an “us and them sort of thing”. She states “The culture of Burning Man can really flourish with money…[for example] to bring great musicians to your camp”.”

    If that does not tell you that the BOrg has sold out I don’t know what could.

    Like

    • BM has thrived on the ‘us vs them’ thing from the time when the organization was formed. BMorg gets off on the ‘us vs them’ thing like heroin addicts. So they let the ‘thems’ eat at the same table… If these ‘thems’ are stupid enough (and they are) to do it (DPW), they deserve their places at the table. And they better not complain about it because there many people in line to take their places.

      Like

      • Yes, the BOrg thrives on having the little people so they can feel important.

        The group as a whole, or members of the group – acting as such and by virtue of their association and affiliation with the group –

        1. Feel grandiose and self-important (e.g., they exaggerate the group’s achievements and talents to the point of lying, demand to be recognized as superior – simply for belonging to the group and without commensurate achievement).

        2. Are obsessed with group fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance, bodily beauty or performance, or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering ideals or political theories.

        3. Are firmly convinced that the group is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status groups (or institutions).

        4. Require excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation – or, failing that, wish to be feared and to be notorious (narcissistic supply).

        5. Feel entitled. They expect unreasonable or special and favorable priority treatment. They demand automatic and full compliance with expectations. They rarely accept responsibility for their actions (“alloplastic defences”).

        6. Are “interpersonally exploitative”, i.e., use others to achieve their own ends.

        7. Are unable or unwilling to identify with or acknowledge the feelings and needs of other groups.

        8. Are constantly envious of others or believe that they feel the same about them.

        9. Are arrogant and sport haughty behaviors or attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted, punished, limited, or confronted.

        https://burners.me/2015/06/02/the-cult-of-narcissistic-personality/
        http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/14.html

        Like

  14. If BMorg finally left the playa people would still return there, perhaps several thousand. Finally getting rid of the Wicked Witch could return the Nevada gathering back to its roots. There’s no way BMorg is going to leave the playa over a 9% tax, though.

    Like

  15. Seems to me this is a perfect opportunity to move Burning Man out of the country and into Indian territory. I’m sure one of the dozens of Indian reservations would be glad to host Burning Man for the millions of dollars they would get out of it. Think of the benefit millions of dollars of yearly revenue would make to one of these reservations.
    For the Burning Man community, they would get a more stable home with NO interference from the federal government, NO interference from the state government (no entertainment tax!), and the only local government involvement would be from the Indian reservation itself. Think of it – no Nevada Highway Patrol giving tickets on the Playa, no police cruising up and down the Burning Man roadways, no drug busts.
    In addition, Burning Man could negotiate with the Indian reservation for permanent structures, a longer event (I like the idea of having it over two weeks), and to allow more people to attend.
    Let’s more Burning Man out of the country!

    Liked by 1 person

    • The San Diego Decom is hosted on a native American reservation the last few years and there has been a tradeoff as a result; more theft and violence being reported against the locals ncluding fights and the brandishing of weapons because there is little to no law enforcement on the reservation land.

      Be careful what you wish for.

      Like

      • Yup. Years ago I attended a large 3 day “rave” held on a reservation and there were all kinds of problems with theft and fights as the locals did not make good attendees. And with no state law enforcement the place was pretty much lawless. The tribe ended up extorting more money from the organizers and the event was never held there again.

        Like

  16. Might you have viewed the Will Chase ama? He stated the usual CoolAid, but he penned a brace of answers that were most curious. Upon the queries in regards to future of the burn, he stated the plans, at present, are to remain on the playa, but, they are in consideration of other options.

    The most curious answer was in regards of that they have had plans to increase the population of Burning Man, with two weeks, and separate tickets for each week. He stated that if would work, but, a new environmental impact statement is required, and it would present operational difficulties, in addendum of stating of that this plan has been discussed since the 2009 burn.

    My belief is this is the source of their 110,000 population cap number, perchance, solely 70,000 within each week. The permit for Burning Man, with the BLM, upon the playa, ends after the 2016 burn. By appearance, one of the options, for the burn, is to pen an environmental impact statement upon this, beginning after the 2015 burn. My belief is it might be awesome might they have the first week in the manner of a Community week, with numerous tickets directed towards the awesome Burner Community, with much being constructed within the beginnings of this week, and the second week in the manner of an EDM party week.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I think the two weekends idea would solve a lot of problems. You could even have one “fundraiser to make money to give to the arts year round” and one “stone soup no sherpas” event.

      Will’s AMA has some good questions from Burners, but doesn’t really clarify anything. I guess that’s not the job of a Minister of Propaganda.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3grrpk/i_am_burning_mans_minister_of_propaganda_will/

      It’s a lot of the usual fluff. For all the Burners.Me bashing over there, most of the questions being asked have been asked here already. Anything of substance – like Temple2014’s extremely valid and politely asked questions – just gets ignored. I wouldn’t be surprised if people sitting in the office with Will are asking some of these questions.

      I guess pretending to be a Nazi is just a hilarious joke to some. Still, Will should pay some respect to his elders – in this case, the former USAF intelligence analyst who was Burning Man’s first Minister of Propaganda.

      http://cardhouse.com/a/santa100.htm

      Like

      • Burners.me – Who?

        Some of the Burners presenting the queries deserve our Gratitude in regards of all their labours for the event, and for the Community, in the manner of Ross labouring for the artists, the insurance gent, and the gent whom priorly threw regionals. Will did not answer the query in regards of, in due of $30.5 million of ticket sales, what was the rationale of the BMOrg art grant for the Temple of Promise of solely $70,000, $1 of each ticket, in despite of the cost of the Temple of Promise is near to $300,000, near to solely $4 of each ticket, and the BMOrg requiring of the Temple crew to raise more than $200,000. Arses.

        Donations to the Temple of Promise are much desired.

        Liked by 1 person

  17. “Could there be a link between a new “entertainment tax” and a new “crackdown on EDM”? Or just more coincidences?”

    That is an interesting observation, and certainly possible. It’s fine by me either way (within the context of my understanding of the new sound policies as NOT being a crackdown on EDM, but rather a compromise on noise levels), as something had to be done about noise levels, and if this also keeps the NV taxman away, that’s a bonus.

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Why the Fuck do you want to go to DAN LOVE’s backyard?

    Fuck that bullshit !!! Mormon police suck fat dicks !!!

    This was a LEGAL rave that those dickheads busted. Never forget.

    FUCK UTAH !!!!!

    UNLESS it’s on PRIVATE PROPERTY, it doesn’t make sense to move it. Pay the fucking tax and leave my regional alone !!!!

    Like

    • That was 10 years ago and back then they were trying to make a point. The state in general has grown and evolved quite a bit since 2005. This kind of stuff is pretty much unheard of now in Utah. The regional burn goes off without a hitch from law enforcement every year. I think Utah is alternate if the current location becomes unsustainable.

      Like

    • It sounds like they want out of Nevada. The numerous salt flats of the west desert of Utah are a perfect backup plan. Its really the only other place in the US that is comparable geographically as well as having the sense of remoteness that is present in The Black Rock Desert.

      Like

  19. As for temporary administrative support space, that is well-precedented by the construction industry. It’s called “trailers.” They also have the advantage that in most venues they are not taxed as capital improvements to the land. (That’s why trailer parks are so cheap, and so hard on school budgets.) If this was more than a rouse to play games with capital and lease-back arrangements, they could go the trailer route, since it is “an experiment in temporary community.“ …Fer chrissake woman, STOP saying that if you don’t mean it.

    Like

    • The do use trailers. The tax being proposed by NV here is for holding the event in the first place. They want to classify it as an entertainment event, and as such eligible for the 9% entertainment tax. How would “more trailers” help in this situation? I’m genuinely asking.

      Like

      • It’s in response to:

        “And, right above the 1-hour mark, Goodell brings up the intriguing possibility of Burning Man’s first permanent structure beyond its office in San Francisco: “For the long-term survival of the culture, we are going to need a physical space…We will, as time goes by, find it hard to only be in the Black Rock Desert. We may need to find a place that would allow for infrastructure. I’m certain that’s in our future.””

        Like

  20. This certainly adds context around why the org is suddenly asking sound camps not to list DJ line-ups. It seemed odd at the time that they would suddenly come out with this policy after so many years, but now it is clear they are trying to make sure they can argue that Burning Man is not entertainment, and therefore not subject to the entertainment tax.

    Liked by 1 person

      • That may be true, I truly don’t know. But I do know the org has not come down hard on sound camps like this year. Robot Heart, White Ocean, etc… have been listing line-ups before the event for a while. I bet you can still find the posts on Facebook from years past.

        This year the came down on Mayan Warrior for publishing a DJ line-up. More so, they did it publicly, which also seemed odd at the time. But the public shaming makes a lot more sense in the context of trying to avoid an entertainment tax.

        That said, they should not pay this tax willingly. Fuck NV with this bullshit. Whether it comes in the form of higher ticket prices for Burners or lower profits for the org, the last entity that deserves an increase in their “cut” of this experience (at our expense) is the state of NV.

        If we have to lay low on the DJ-line-up-io, I am fine with that. I truly would not classify Burning Man as “entertainment” (although I admit I have no idea what Nevada law defines as such). I can see how announcing line-ups makes Burning Man look like an entertainment event, which it really isn’t.

        Oh and what they did to Dancetronauts was different, and was crap. I did not understand that one at all.

        Like

  21. boo hoo poor BMorg… can’t afford the luxury flights w/sushi and champagne? I feel so bad for you…. NOT! Pay the tax already, you make MORE than enough $$$ off all those turnkey camps and whatever else you have yer greedy hands in. I hope it moves so I don’t have to go anymore!

    Liked by 1 person

  22. I don’t see how moving will save money anytime soon. They would have to set up a new work ranch, transport all the equipment, and learn new “best practices” in a new situation. If they bought land, for a permanent location, that would cost even more.

    I’m sure tickets will likely be at least $425 next year, even if they find a way around the tax. Likely they will add on rv passes, raise car pass rates, institute a theme camp tax, issue art car registration fees, charge contributing artists to display art, and charge parking fees per hour you are in line. Crap, I’m giving them ideas . . .

    If they are reading, and plan to buy land, I hope they consider the Columbus salt marsh in Nevada. One of the few large, privately owned dry lakebeds in the state.

    Liked by 2 people

  23. I think this article illustrates typical Goodall evasiveness that really tells us absolutely nothing about the future of Burning Man or what she plans to accomplish. Note that she says that Burning Man “may need a space for permanent infrastructure” only to follow it up with “Burning Man is an experiment in temporary community”.

    In my opinion, bringing up Utah is clearly a straw man designed to piss off Nevada and the powers that be to give her leverage in negotiating. The only reason they can’t absorb the tax is because Goodall likes to pad the pockets of her, and her high level staff. With nonprofit status in the works, she can now also accept tax exempt donations from corporations to further pad her pockets and further monetize the event.

    Burning Man is definitely a fun party in the desert, but at least be honest with us Goodall – your real motive here is to make retirement cash on the event, regardless of the form it survives in.

    Liked by 2 people

  24. I hope it is a negotiating tactic, because I like the event right where it is. But it would be interesting to have it in another location. For me, I like the fact that it occurs on public land with no permanent infrastructure. That aspect is a big part of the appeal, for me. Changing that to accommodate the BMORG’s unexplainable need to increase the size of the event would also change the event’s focus, for the worse.

    Like

    • “Changing that to accommodate the BMORG’s unexplainable need to increase the size of the event would also change the event’s focus, for the worse.”

      What have you been drinking today? Or are you an emotional vampire, feeding on the ticketing angst?

      Liked by 1 person

      • You don’t think that changing the event from one held on public land with temporary infrastructure to one held on private land with permanent infrastructure would change the event? Do you also not believe that the temporary nature of the event is one of its core elements? Not sure where your bafflement is at on this one.

        Like

          • You said: “Changing that to accommodate the BMORG’s unexplainable need to INCREASE the size of the event would also change the event’s focus, for the worse.”

            WHY DO YOU THINK THE EVENT SIZE SHOULD NOT BE INCREASED?

            Like

          • Personal preference. 70,000 is already a bit too large for my tastes. When I started going it was around 40,000, that seemed about right. Again, personal preference here.

            Like

          • The size is not so much an issue for me as ticket availability. No spontaneity now. Most years I was going you could buy a tkt at the gate, so you could ask people to join your camp or even put one together at the last minute.

            Like

          • Hey, I’m with you on that, it’s just not possible anymore. I’ll sacrifice a little spontaneity for preventing the event to get to ridiculous size.

            Like

          • You may see it as losing “a little” spontaneity; I see it as losing spontaneity. Moreover it would remove the whole ticketing game, and return it to an open event. Should also reduce the tkt demand since the value of a tkt would never exceed face value. However, it would be a MAJOR loss of manipulation by the BOrg, and loss of NPD supplies; I question if they could ever make that decision.

            Like

          • You think 100,000 would be enough for it not to sell out tickets? Maybe for awhile, but for how long, who knows? And then what?

            I do like the idea of a two week event, and even with the different weeks catering to different things. Ultimately, that might be the way to go. Of course, then we’d get into the 2-week pass vs. 1-week pass, but that might be OK.

            Like

  25. For whatever reason, this is a start! Now, they need to assess the location each September, with a specification of their needs, and have communities bid on hosting the event. Otherwise, we will be in the same place once the people in Utah realize that the calcified BOrg can’t think on it’s feet.

    …Anyone want to buy some otherwise useless property cheap near Gerlach?

    (Or course this “Utah” card could just be a negotiating ploy, but don’t tell anyone.)

    Liked by 1 person

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