Methoxetamine: The “Legal” Dissociative That Is Stronger & More Dangerous Than K

by Terry Gotham

Now that everyone is slowly filtering back into the default world, I wanted to mention a somewhat warped trend that the dance music community has been coping with for the last couple of years. Peeps search for replacements to a select illegal drug of choice, then optimize efficacy when they find one. While this sounds kind of harmless, any of our regular readers will be aware of the issues I’ve discussed surrounding legal highs & novel psychoactive substances. Today I want to talk Methoxetamine or MXE, the latest Ketamine substitute you probably saw someone sniff without knowing on playa.

As Ketamine was cut by dealers worldwide, people started looking for replacement substances. Additionally, if your K dealer was ever busted, you needed another source. What people found was Methoxetamine, a much stronger disassociative powder that has provided some crazy trips and terrifying experiences for the heavy users among us. Also, apparently the M-Ket Holes the heavy doses induce result in people “standing upright, totally zoned out, with pants full of shit.” That’s right, all the fun of a K-hole, now with new & improved involuntary bowel evacuation!

Central to the problem is that Ketamine’s effects are well known & we’ve got a ton of research on the stuff. MXE, MXP & the other substitutes for Ketamine aren’t cleared for human consumption, nor do we have a good understanding of their array of symptoms. We have good longitudinal data about using Ketamine for months or even years on end. We don’t even have data on what happens if you take this stuff every night over a weekend, much less if you build it into your annual drug consumption. This makes MXE potentially more dangerous than K. Ask anyone who has seen someone ruin their lives on Ketamine and they can tell you just how dangerous Ketamine is. So, to say that this stuff is more dangerous, seems like a bit of a stretch, but the proof is out there for people willing to look.

I have no issue with people putting whatever powder they want up their noses as long as they know what’s up. But I don’t believe most people truly do know what they’re snorting. This is a substance that you can buy on the internet (legally, depending on where you live on the planet of course). The New York DanceSafe chapter has noticed MXE being cut with other synthetics, so even the new legal highs aren’t safe.

The solutions are the same that you’ve heard me bang on about for a little while now. Firstly, test your shit. If you don’t, you’re liable to put something up your nose that shouldn’t be there, or in dosages that will mess you up in the micro/accelerate addiction in the macro. Secondly, if you’re actually interested in doing MXE or MXP, do as much research as you possibly can. Doing a drug you’ve never heard of before, while on something else, just because someone offers you a bump of it at a party is literally the most irresponsible thing you can do at a party short of setting a fire or shitting the dance floor. Many of us are guilty of doing that very thing, taking the unknown substance, not shitting the dance floor (I hope). As for big picture solutions, the legalizing & regulating of drugs is essentially the only thing that can help structurally change the problems. Of course, chuckleheads are doing the exact opposite, but as anyone who has done drugs can tell you, we can’t schedule our way to utopia.

Join the gang of harm reduction warriors on Twitter at 1:30pm PST to talk about Ketamine, MXE & M-Ket Hole stories, because we love you and don’t want you shitting yourselves.

22 comments on “Methoxetamine: The “Legal” Dissociative That Is Stronger & More Dangerous Than K

  1. Such an empty article. Did you talk to anyone who enjoys MXE or look for any science around MXE?

    This is one of my favorite substances, and I’ve had some of the most enjoyable conversations on it. It’s stimulating, and generally cognitively clear, without the fog and anti-social effects often associated with ketamine. There is little or no hangover, perhaps even a positive one. While the drug is chemically related to ketamine, the effects are wildly different.

    I’ve done MXE with many, many, many people and never once had anyone shit themselves, and almost every person has loved the experience.

    This blog bags on lots of people for publishing poorly researched or deceptive drivel. How about holding yourself to the same standard! You seem to have simply googled MXE and relied on anti-drug propaganda and media hysteria without doing a moment of substantive research.

    When you spread misinformation about drugs, you harm everyone. You should know better, being an advocate for drug decriminalization and education.

    Update this article with some reliable information! Please!

    Like

  2. Wow, you’ve got some really great info in this article. I’m sure you haven’t researched anything this extensively since your 3rd grade science fair project. This is almost as informative as asking “what is MXE?” on yahoo answers. Great job, man, glad to see someone on the inter web presenting some reliable facts.

    Like

  3. I love MXE. It lasts for a long time, which can be good or bad, and that’s why I prefer to snort it (or take it sublingually) which shortens the duration a little bit.

    If you do just a little (10-20mg) you might feel like you’ve had a few beers but without feeling bloated or nauseous. If you take more like 30 or 40mg it becomes more trippier but still without any stomach sick feeling. You might feel like a brain controlling a robot suit body; your sense of touch will feel numb or distant (which could lead you to get hurt without noticing as much), and your sentences will seem kind of hard to craft but people will understand your meaning even if you don’t get all of the words out (or the right words). 50mg and you might forget your name for a little while; motion feels cool, it’s fun just to rock back and forth, especially with your eyes closed! Or just lay down and relax and listen to music, be alone with the song, just your mind and the music.

    There’s not a bad comedown, even after 50mg (the highest I’ve taken), and tolerance doesn’t build very quickly. It doesn’t seem to be harmful to your mind or body and could be abused regularly, especially due to its cheap price. Redosing generally isn’t necessary or wanted, unless you prefer to go 10mg line by 10mg line so you can creep up on just the perfect dose. I think this drug is quite a social drug if you are around people who understand your level, and while it could be abused I think it could be used like alcohol in the future, if people prefer the long lasting single dose rather than drinking multiple beers and shots of liquid.

    One time, while on MXE with some friends (maybe 30mg each), we discussed the funny idea of video recording our trip as a fake anti-drug ad. It would consist of two of us sitting on the couch and one of us sitting in a chair and all just talking about weird ideas and different memories. Looks like a crazy dangerous drug, right? No, because it isn’t that crazy or dangerous, in my opinion. There is unfortunately not much long-term studies on the drug since it hasn’t been around for a long time, but probably 2 grams have gone up my nose and I’m still lovin’ it like McDonald’s and that won’t be changing any time soon. I don’t use it very often (maybe once a week, if that) but it’s a great drug to have and to mix with other drugs! 30mg each of MXE and 2C-B was fantastic but almost too much at times, and molly with some MXE is also really unique.

    I guess I didn’t mention dosage, but I would say threshold is 3-5mg, light 10-25, med 25-50, and I haven’t tried beyond that but the M-hole (which I try to stay away from as I fear what I’ve heard of its addictiveness) is somewhere around 75-100mg I think.

    And, like with (almost) all drugs, DO NOT DRIVE ON THIS SUBSTANCE. It’s similar to alcohol in its effects, and while i’m not sure if it delays your reaction time it will lower your ability to notice everything going on (on the road) and make it a lot easier to get distracted. Keep others and yourself safe and DON’T DRIVE ON MIND-ALTERING SUBSTANCES.

    (These are all just my opinions after a lot of online research and quite a bit of real-life experimenting. It’s funny how much more research I do on any illegal drug that I take, compared to the little if any research on the popular legal ones. Maybe keeping them illegal IS actually making [smart] drug users safer.)

    Liked by 2 people

  4. Let’s just face the facts. All drugs are bad and no matter what the proof is – some people will go crazy with their matter of fact comments.

    Being a raver in early 2000 meant everyone was surrounded by K. We were all accused of being drug addicts just by our choice of music.

    Articles like this make me feel like everyone hopped on the drug train on their way to EDC.

    Seriously, good or bad experiences with these weird synthetic drugs will eventually harm you in some way. Have some common sense.

    Like

  5. This is a fucking awful editorial piece. Seriously, you post 16 links, and exactly 1 of them is to anything remotely scientific? For example:

    http://www.thewestonforum.com/46643/synthetics-are-emerging-as-drugs-of-abuse/

    This article sounds like it was written by a 14-year-old who was told to write about new scary “drugs of abuse.” It is the local news from Weston, Connecticut. This…is your source? Let’s look closer. It is clearly 10+ years behind the actual trends of emerging drugs and abuse patterns, has zero cultural or scientific context, and doesn’t know the difference between a brand name and a street name. This is your SOURCE FOR INFORMATION? You say “the proof is out there” and cite the Daily Mail, which is literally a tabloid?

    MXE is not safe. It’s “safer” than ketamine in that it’s less hard on the body by being four times as potent per mass and four times longer lasting (much less urge to redose), and it’s less “safe” than ketamine because the smaller amount is harder to judge and thus easier to put yourself into a more intoxicated state than you expected. It’s also “safer” in that getting caught with it will not send you to prison and into the cycle of crime-poverty-violence. No psychoactive substance is “safe,” but MXE is a lot safer than many legal substances, prescribed medications, and other hobbies, that’s for certain.

    Your article is bad and you should feel bad. Do you even have a basic understanding of why MXE was developed? Have you heard of the ketamine drought?

    We need to talk about safe and sensible use of recreational drugs like MXE, by providing harm reduction tactics and real scientific/medical information. Unfortunately, neither of those can be found in this fearmongering opinion piece.

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    • It is good fun if you do it rarely and be responsible with them, not every user does things like this, festivals attract drug abusers anyway, this isn’t representative of all people who use K, it can be a very relaxing and fun experience if done responibly with friends.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. FWIW, I’ve heard of people shitting themselves on K as well, and any number of other substances. This kind of fear mongering never helps with drug use.

    That said the article further on brings up the actual points that matter: it’s not as researched as K, we know less about the receptor affinities, and the anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that MXE might be more addictive.

    Also worth noting is that the MXE bubble, so to speak, has already come and went. People who actually seek MXE are now having a hard time finding legitimate sources for it, as it is largely being replaced by Chinese suppliers with MXM or MXP, which is considered by most K and MXE users to be a much worse experience. Add that in with people cutting or outright replacing K with these and you’ve got a recipe for a hella bad time. Your link about MXE being cut actually tells this story- the samples were not cut MXE but rather entirely replaced with MXP it seems.

    The other thing to worry about is the combination profile of MXE is more dangrous than K. This is not a be-all-end-all chart, but: http://wiki.tripsit.me/images/3/3a/Combo_2.png

    Compare MXE to K. MXE has some interactions with serotonin receptors that put you at a higher risk of serotonin syndome when combined with serotonin releasing substances that K does not have the same danger.

    Anyways, conclusion spot on: test your shit.

    Liked by 2 people

    • And also, given the profile here, of course the drug “sounds awful”. However there are tons of people who have had a great time on it.

      This is an interview with the chemist who came up with MXE and varieties: http://www.vice.com/read/interview-with-ketamine-chemist-704-v18n2

      And if you peruse the erowid trip reports, you’ll see there are both plenty of glowing and mystical experiences, as well as bad experiences, like just about any other psychoactive substance: https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Methoxetamine_.shtml

      Sounds much less scary now. Every drug has bad and good experiences. The best thing you can do is know what kind of experience you are getting yourself into, as part of your set and setting

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      • I’ve been called a drug dealer a little too many times here, so I’ve tried to be up front about the risks of doing an illegal and untested drug. I’m really glad people have had good experiences on it, but from a stance of trying to keep the site from being seen as promoting drug usage, I’ll have to keep coming down on the more cautious side.

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      • Of course, but the good to bad trip ratio seems tilted more towards bad with disassociatives than with other types of drugs. And that’s without factoring in other substances that are either cut into or entirely replacing the original drug. You don’t see so many reports of bad trips with MDMA, for instance. I don’t know, it all comes down to preference. And yeah, test your shit.

        Liked by 2 people

    • Dissociatives are okay, they give a nice feeling of tranquility and you can see some very pleasant images and your thought patterns are different on them. MXE isn’t new, it’s only taken by veteran dissociative lovers now a days, it is better for them than ketamine it would seem BUT MXE shouldn’t be sold to people who don’t know what they’re doing. I don’t particularly seek them out either though they can be a good night in.

      Liked by 1 person

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