The Dancetronauts Strip Ship is one of the most popular art cars at Burning Man. The vehicle rises vertically on a scissor lift, and shimmers with a rainbow wall of LEDs. The entire thing is a giant light installation, and easy to spot. It sometimes tows behind it a custom made sound stage called the Bass Station – DJ booth, speakers, amps, dancing podiums, all hand-built, home-made, and self-contained.
For seven years, Dancetronauts have been bringing their show to the Playa. Not just DJs – a whole uniformed crew, lights, and beautiful dancers the Dancetrohotties. To help raise the funds required to put their show on every night for a week, they have also been taking the Strip Ship and Bass Station to other festivals: including EDC, Coachella, and even NASCAR. Sounds good, right? Promoting Burner culture to a wider audience is the entire purpose of Burning Man, now that it’s a non-profit – isn’t it?
Well, the Fun Police at BMHQ have banned Dancetronauts from Burning Man and related events for at least a year. Why? For being “too loud”, and because one of their lineup of scores of DJs got on the mic and tried to gift the crowd his music.
Let’s take a look into the details of what happened. For the TL;DR crowd:
The main complaints were:
1. Dancetronauts was too loud on Burn night, drowning out the drums for some fire performers in the LA Fire Brigade, part of the Fire Conclave located at 6:00
2. They had a DJ who got on the mic, said his name and that he had a new album coming out he wanted to gift to the crowd for free
Dancetronauts acknowledges that these things happened, and have taken full responsibility for these screw ups, and they’re very sorry.
They spent half the year negotiating with DMV, trying to work out how to do better next time, and how to restore themselves to “good standing”.
The main guy from DMV quit during the negotiations.
The DMV Council banned them for at least a year – they can’t even bring their art car without the sound stage. The were also banned from the SF Decompression.
Too loud at Burning Man? Is there such a thing? Isn’t the whole point of going hours and hours away from civilization, spreading a city out over 1000 acres, and having miles of Deep Playa space for art cars, that we can all make as much noise as we want? If there is one place in the world you can go to turn your stereo up, surely Burning Man is that place? If not Burning Man, then where?
In the city, it seems that there has been a distinct shift in recent years – and the direction they are going is more yoga and TED talks, less parties. Noise volume is now officially limited to 90 decibels and stereo power to 300W. This is about the sound of a hair-dryer, and the power output of an iPhone speaker dock.
Is there music as loud as a bar or nightclub in Black Rock City? Ummm, yes! Like, everywhere…It’s not a festival, it’s a whole city, and there’s stuff going on in the city itself at 1000+ camps – not just out on the Playa. At least, that’s the Burning Man I remember.
The Fun Police will no doubt say “your radical self expression doesn’t over-ride your civic responsibility, if your neighbors want it quieter turn it down”. This is one of the classic battles in the Default world. Young people who want to boogie down and whoop it up to their favorite music, face the wrath of irate neighbors and police knocking on the door.
Don’t we go to Burning Man to get away from all that?
A very interesting discussion on this topic has been going on recently in the Burning Man Theme Camp Organizers facebook group. It highlights the difference between this new Burning Man 2.0 and the former pre-shark Burning Man that many of us “After Burners” so fondly remember. Jennifer says:
We know at least from all the years past that LOTS of theme camps threw events throughout the week that had loud sound – we’ve been to some of them! They are some of our very favorite camps even…people like Red Lightning, Sacred Spaces, District, Entheon in the old days (I was camped there when they were on F), lots of others. These people had loud music and drew crowds and made the whole city fun because you could always find something awesome to do in every neighborhood….not just at 10 & 2.
So I know we aren’t the only theme camp not at 10 & 2 who throws an event with Sound. Are you having similar issues? What are you doing about it? Is the city going to be literally silent and dead everywhere but 10 & 2 and deep playa?
It’s an impossible choice for us to make….no party but the placement we want or throw the party and a placement that no one in our camp is on-board with.
Many in our camp are considering not coming back in 2016 to burning man with how it’s going now given how so many of us can’t get tickets anymore (50+ people so far w/o tickets many of who are speakers performers and team leads) and now we can’t throw a party that hundreds of people say is an event they look forward to and can’t wait to attend. Doesn’t burning man want camps like ours to throw events like this? Events like I imagine many of you also throw? Isn’t that what makes burning man so amazing? I thought burning man was wanting to support theme camps doing this kind of stuff? Since when do people go to burning man expecting to have complete peace and quiet? I’ve always had it that when I hear loud stuff going on all the time it’s part of the fun and magic of a city that never sleeps and has something for everyone at any time of day or night.
Very well put, and very good questions. She follows it up with another great set:
Question about the city though….Is it the intention of the BMORG to be fairly silent within the city and have all sound only at 10 & 2? Will there now from this point forward not be any camps within the rest of the streets having parties and events? It used to be that 10 & 2 had the larger sound camps that had musical programming day and night every night and then other camps within the city also had events throughout the week day and night but at camps whose whole purpose wasn’t sound/music all the time? Is this what’s happening? Just curious if this is their intention given we aren’t the only camp that isn’t a big sound camp that has events? Is there a moratorium on all that now? I’m curious if anyone knows the intentions and if the old days of music and events happening throughout the city all over are over and being replaced with quieter day time only programming? Is District going away? Sacred Spaces going away? Others who do events but aren’t strictly a sound camp (like we are not really a sound camp with only 1 event)? Curious if anybody knows their intentions.
And this, I think, is something all Burners want to know. Are they trying to “turn down” Burning Man? Stop there being so much music? Take the life out of the city, to force people onto the Esplanade and the Playa? Or is there some sort of war on against EDM at Burning Man?
If we’re lucky, we’ll get a blog post explaining it all on Voices of Burning Man. Until then, us Burners have to try to figure it out for ourselves.
In reply, Lana says:
It’s hard for anyone to say what the ORG’s intentions or plans are, unless they put it out officially. There’s always speculation, rumor and conspiracies out there. But right now it seems everyone off the esplanade, portals, plazas And 10 and 2 are just expected to have their noise relatively limited to the confines of their own camp, in the wee hours especially. To your neighbors it should sound like a radio on volume 2 or 3 in their bedroom, not 6,7,8,9 or 10.
And Elias says:
It is officially published —
“Within the city, a maximum power amplification of 300 watts is permitted, producing sound amplification not to exceed 90 decibels, when measured at 20 feet from the source.” <http://burningman.org/…/black-rock-city…/sound-systems/>
Nobody is accusing the Dancetronauts of EVER playing too loud in a residential neighborhood, they have always been super-respectful of all of Burning Man’s rules and principles. But what about Art Cars on the Playa in Burning Man 2.0? Can they still play music when the Man burns? Or is the Man burn supposed to be like the Temple burn now, silent. Respectful. Instead of howling and cheering and screaming, finding an art car with good music and settling in by it for a few hours as we wait for the show to get started and the Man to finally burn down…we’re all supposed to just hold hands and sing kumbayah?
If an Art Car points its speakers towards Deep Playa, what does the volume have to be? How do they measure it – is there a standard distance? Who decides what is “too loud”?
Here is the official Mutant Vehicle sound policy:
Mutant vehicle sound systems can be classified into three levels.
- Level 1: Normal car stereo / average living room (under 90dB at 30 ft)
- Level 2: Dance Club or Theatre (90dB and up at under 100ft)
- Level 3: Large Dance Club, Arena, Stadium (100dB or more at 100ft or more)
All dB levels refer to maximum potential DBA.
The important thing here is the impact of the sound itself. The numbers (dB) are guidelines and the important thing is the impact your sound is having.
Vehicles with Level 1 systems may play anywhere playa, but must be mindful of your volume and surroundings, especially in quieter areas in the city or later at night.
Vehicles with Level 2 systems may only play at high volume on the open playa (not in or pointing right into the city streets) and must be mindful of where you are playing — e.g. around art pieces, burns, etc. — and turn it down when appropriate.
Vehicles with Level 3 systems may only play at high volume at 10:00 and 2:00 by the Large Scale Sound Camps, with speakers pointing out to the deep playa.
If you get more than two warnings about your sound system, you may lose your MV license and the right to drive it for the rest of the event.
What level is “High Volume”? It is not stated in the sound policy. Who is responsible for letting the Mutant Vehicle operator know that there has been a noise complaint? Rangers? DMV? That is not clear, but it seems that no-one actually AT Burning Man last year was tasked with this. Or if they were, they didn’t get the “punish Dancetronauts” memo – because there were no complaints to Dancetronauts at the event itself.
The Mutant Vehicle Sound policy states quite clearly that noise levels get measured, and if a sound system volume is in violation of the agreed noise level, they will be warned. After they have received 2 warnings, if there are any more problems their Mutant Vehicle license will be revoked for the rest of the event.
That’s the policy. If Dancetronauts caused any problems under the Mutant Vehicle Sound policy, then as the policy states, they would have been notified of this.
Dancetronauts were cautioned about their noise level after 2013’s event. That year, for Cargo Cult, Opulent Temple took a year off as a major sound stage – but teamed up with Dancetronauts to throw a massive White Party at the Control Tower. This year, Dancetronauts threw an even more massive party at Embrace. Featuring DJs Diplo (Grammy-nominated) and Skrillex (6 Grammies, #9 DJ in the world on the Forbes list), it was one of the biggest parties on the Playa of the whole 2014 burn, creating memorable moments for a major segment of Burners. At least 20 art cars came to join them, using FM radio to synchronize everyone’s music together. Another 30 art cars came and joined in the party too. So 50 art cars, and tens of thousands of Burners over the course of the night. Basically creating the celebration for the gigantic Embrace art installation, which everyone got to see burn the next morning. This amazing Burning Man experience was not brought to you by the Ruling Group of BMOrg; instead, it was thanks to a lot of hard work and Gifting by the artists – including the musical performers.
These are some good Burners, right? The kind we want? They brought all that for free, put on huge shows, entertained hundreds of thousands of people over seven years. Isn’t that what makes the party, a whole bunch of art cars getting together around an amazing mega-sculpture, celebrating next to it before we burn it? It’s not just me thinking the raves at Burning Man are great, these dance floors are packed with people.
In this video of the Thursday night party at Embrace, the music sounds loud, but not excessively so – you can clearly hear the cameraman talking. Dancetronauts have hand-built a custom system that can play loud, but not so loud that you can’t talk to each other in the middle of the dance floor. An audio accomplishment they should be praised for, not punished for.
And no-one complained. Are you kidding me? These people are all rocking, watch this or any of the other many videos of Dancetronauts Burning Man 2014 on YouTube. No-one measured their sound levels and found a violation at any time during Burning Man 2014. No-one contacted a ranger, to say that Dancetronauts was causing a problem. Dancetronauts didn’t hear anything the entire week – which surely would mean that their noise levels were fine, right? Especially since they were under extra scrutiny after the previous year’s caution?
The complaints that led to the Dancetronauts ban were almost entirely around an incident on Burn night. One of the Fire Conclave groups, LA Fire Brigade, found it hard to hear their drums because the Dancetronauts art car was playing music. No-one informed the Dancetronauts of this problem, although by some accounts people close to the fire conclave tried to get the DJ’s attention by booing.
Then, the DJ got on the microphone, and told people that if they liked his music, they could get his latest album for free. He did this either 1, 3, or 5 times depending on the various accounts of the complainers.
Now, it’s important to note at this stage that Dancetronauts have completely acknowledged that this happened. They are very sorry. They were in the same 6 o’clock area that they had been for the past 5 Man burns, and nobody had ever come to them to let them know there was any issue with the music – if that had happened, they would have immediately addressed it. They had no idea they were affecting any fire performances, they are huge supporters of fire dancing.
They have apologized in person to the members of the LA Fire Brigade who were in that part of the Fire Conclave’s performace, and resolved the issues going forward to stop them happening again. They have gone out of their way to make personal contact with every complainer they can identify, to share how sorry they are.
They have gone to great lengths to try to make amends for this mistake, and put things right. Their whole crew care deeply about Burning Man, it is a huge part of all their lives and they are just devastated to be told they can’t come back this year.
So what is BMOrg trying to achieve here? What motivates a decision like this, to PUNISH? I am really struggling to comprehend it, and that is why I asked Nomad to write his guest post on NPD and the BOrg – thanks, Nomad.
In this case, we don’t even know who the decision makers are – or what their process was. The “DMV Council” are officially the ones who made the decision to ban Dancetronauts. So who is the DMV Council? Good question – there’s nothing on the Burning Man web site about it. Most of you probably don’t spend a lot of time going through burningman.org looking for stuff, but I do – and I find it incredibly hard to navigate. So if I missed the section where the DMV Council is listed, please point me to it. I used the Search function on the site for DMV Council, nothing comes up in the last 8 years. I can find nothing in the Afterburn report, there’s nothing in Jackrabbit Speaks. We don’t know who’s on it, how they get appointed to it, and who’s watching over them to ensure that decisions are made properly and impartially – if indeed that is the motivation of this Council. To all intents and purposes, to art car owners the decision making group is a “black box”. Do they operate independently of the Burning Man Organization, make their own decisions? Are they guided by the Ten Principles? What powers of punishment do they have? Is there any ombudsman, any oversight, any way to object if these decisions made in secret seem unfair?
We do know that the head of the DMV Council, Chef Juke, just up and quit in the middle of Dancetronauts trying to work out what they needed to do to maintain their good standing. Another long time Burning Man team member out the door, not making the transition to the Brave New World of Burning Man 2.0.
Here’s some video of the night in question. You can see how far away Dancetronauts were parked from the perimeter, and how many people were happily rocking away in front of them. Sure, the music is loud in front of it, but they are by no means the only art car playing music when the Burn happens.
In this video you can clearly hear people talking while the music is going and the:
You can clearly hear the drumming here over the music:
Here’s some other video of the night in question. Fire conclave is happening, you can’t hear any music from Dancetronauts. This is at about 2 o’clock.
BMOrg told Dancetronauts that they had received “hundreds” of complaints, but when they actually handed over the entire set of feedback comments they had received, there were 32. Leaving aside (for now) any questions about the legitimacy of those complaints, let’s look at their composition.
6 didn’t even mention Dancetronauts, and were just about loud art cars in general. That BMOrg would even consider throwing these in – 20% of the complaints – smacks of scapegoating. Dancetronauts are being held up as an example of something many others are doing, because they’re the convenient target du jour. Some of the complaints were for more than one problem. There were 25 complaints for the DJ plugging his album, no matter that it was free. This is considered a “Decommodification Violation”, despite the fact that there is no commercial transaction involved.
There were 11 complaints for noise on Burn night. Every single one of these also complained about the DJ plug. 4 of them specifically mentioned other art cars in their complaints also.
So we’re now down to 7 complainers who had an issue just with Dancetronauts volume on Burn night.
Is that how Art Cars that are loved by the majority of Burners get banned? And parties for thousands of people get stopped? Because of 7 people? Is this the city we want to call “Home”, a city where a few complainers get to call the shots?
The complaints show very clearly that the real problem was the guy on the mic, not the volume. So why not just ban the mic? And not just for Dancetronauts, for every art car? Why do they have to single out these guys?
Sure, I get that rules are needed to make the city work, particularly now that it’s this big. In this case, what rules were actually broken? The Ten Principles aren’t rules. OK, so a DJ offered his art for free with a microphone. It’s Gifting, it’s Self Expression, it’s Immediacy, it’s Participation, but I’ll grant you that it doesn’t appear quite so great on Decommodification or Civic Responsibility. Which Principles count more than the others? Do people, Mutant Vehicles, and entire camps get banned from Burning Man now, for Ten Principles violations?
The Mutant Vehicle Sound policy is a set of rules, but there is no indication Dancetronauts violated any of them. Their speakers were pointed towards deep Playa, if they had been at the 10 o’clock or 2 o’clock positions for the Man Burn then they would have been pointed towards the city instead. In the policy, it is suggested that Level 2 systems be turned down for Burns, for all we know they did turn their system down that night. I’m sure it was capable of going much, much louder. Nobody measured a noise level or gave Dancetronauts a warning that their Mutant Vehicle was “too loud” – whatever that actually means.
It’s not the first time this sort of thing has happened – the example a few years back of Freebird at the Temple springs to mind. Did anyone get banned from Burning Man for a year over that? No. There was no punishment whatsoever.
Is this really the way to make Burning Man better? Art cars that entertain thousands of people, with no problems for years, get instantly banned the moment there is one slight fuck-up? No-one bothers to mention to them EVEN ONCE at the event, that there’s any kind of problem. No-one is interested in working with them after the event, so that they can establish foolproof methods of preventing these incidents from happening in the future. The thousand people merrily dancing to the Dancetronauts for every disgruntled Burner complaining doesn’t matter, 1 complainer trumps 1000 Burners.
Even if the only way that BMOrg can make Burning Man better in the long term is PUNISH BURNERS based on complaints, couldn’t the rules and consequences be more clear? Couldn’t BMOrg follow their own Mutant Vehicle Sound policy, and give them a caution? If not, if there was such a history of problems from a group that nothing was working and the only recourse was therefore punishment: couldn’t the punishment just be “don’t bring your sound system for a year”? Why does it have to be “your whole crew should take a break, we don’t want your art car back”? Why do all of the people who contribute to the camp have to pay the price for a single DJ’s actions over a few seconds, where is the Radical Inclusion here? Where is the loyalty and gratitude for their Communal Effort, Self-Expression, Gifting, Participation, and Immediacy? They are valued members of our community, a camp and car and crew much beloved by the majority of Burners. BMOrg should treat them that way.
Banning Dancetronauts for a year won’t stop art cars playing loud music on Burn night, or otherwise breaking the Mutant Vehicle sound policy. Dancetronauts pled guilty, immediately stood up and accepted responsibility, apologized, made peace with the LA Fire Brigade, and promised that they had learned their lesson. They seem to have tried really hard to put this right, rather than taking the attitude of “fuck you we do what we want”. What more could they do? They made suggestions like “banning DJs from using the mic” or “don’t bring the sound system to the Burn on burn night, keep it in Deep Playa only or even leave it at camp”. Surely either of those would have shown that they had acknowledged the problem, and had made concessions to reflect their understanding of it. Would it really have hurt so much to say “OK, apology accepted” and give them the benefit of the doubt?
There will now be hundreds of other noisy art cars to take Dancetronauts’ place in the complaining ears of the few grumblers who go to Burning Man seeking peace and quiet and tranquility, but can’t be bothered Radically Self-Relying on earplugs. Instead, they expect 20,000 people to leave the dance floor immediately, so these Special Burners can take a nana nap. Some of the Founders might be coming up on their Seventies, but most Burners are in their Twenties and Thirties. People go to Burning Man to party all night long until the sun rises, this should not be a newsflash to anybody. The entire city is aligned to the sunrise, FFS!
“TOO LOUD FOR BURNING MAN” is a losing battle. Silence is not going to make Burning Man better. No problem gets solved by this, just more ill-will and resentment being created against the Borg. Maybe a dozen or two people got pissed off by Dancetronauts on one or two occasions this year – but there were hundreds, if not thousands, of people dancing to their music when they played it. They sure look happy to me! And there are hundreds of thousands of Burners who have been entertained by the Dancetronauts over the last 7 years. Don’t the happy Burners count, too?
Read Part II here.
For those interested in this story, here are some further details from the Dancetronauts themselves:
Dear Terry Schoop, We want to work this out with you guys but your not really giving us a chance to.How about working along with me and throwing some options out on the table instead of telling a group of dedicated burners that have been participating in your event for over a decade that the are no longer allowed to come as a group and release the art form that resides within our hearts.This is not sitting well with any one person in our group and all in all is not fair to us at all.Whats this really about?????????? Honestly! Sound?Facts:
1.) For the duration of the week we are always out on deep playa playing our music where we are supposed to be!
2.) When we come back to camp from outer playa our volume levels are extremely low when were inside the “Inner Circle” and always have been for years. (we know what we are doing)
3.) We NEVER play by the Temple or anywhere near it and never have, That is extremely disrespectful, distasteful and absurd to even think we would do something like that!
4.) Our group is made up of solid respectable professionals age 40+ ER Doc,US Marshal,Veterinarian,Acupuncture,Engineer and so on, we are (Not Punk ass Frat boys or scumbags)
5.) We do not go into the inner city or even the inner playa we are always out past 2 and 10 unless we are driving out there at “The correct reasonable volume”
6.) Dancetronauts are drug and alcohol free and have always operated that way.
7.) 100% perfect safety record. We have no history of hazardous behavior, recklessness, or accidents.What does this all mean? We bring an element to your event that is needed at BM now more than ever (Its called contentiousness of earth) Inviting and supporting participants like us that actually abide by and follow your commandments is beneficial to the event. Dancetronauts setting examples for all the new participants that are not understanding just what BM is about is us doing exactly what you would want.
Now don’t come at me like “How, by blasting Music?” because I’m getting tired of the snide comments we as a group have been receiving from the BMOrg. We do our thing out there as do many others. We also do a good job at safely running a huge mobile artistic performance stage and we have for years. We have built the stage up year after year to be bigger and better and now we are at a point where our show might have been just a bit to big for some of those at the burn. This does not mean we should be banned this just means we should figure out how to accommodate both parties so that everyone is happy and nobody comes out a looser. Well your not being fair and your punishing a bunch of hard working and loyal burners for no other reason except sound complaints that can be handled easily. Face it, your not putting the energy in to come to a resolve.I read every single complaint on the sheet you sent us. 70,000 attendees and we upset the 100 that were in front of us at the burns. It’s apparent that almost all the comments were from people that were at the Man Burn. In fact it was only one DJ that played way to loud and only one, it was the same DJ that was promoting “FREE” music. This will never happen again I will make sure of that! I have no control over what people could say so I believe it would be better to just not have a microphone. You have my apologies if this upset people.
As for the sound being to loud at the man burn “and” the other art burns I completely agree that we were so loud that we in fact ruined other groups performances. I feel terrible about this and now that it has been brought to my attention I would do everything in my power to make sure we never did anything to disrupt another performance experience. I did not realize that we were being so disruptive and you have my sincerest apologies. Again please note that none of the complaints were from us being in the outer playa or anywhere else inside the event at all or any times during the event. It was solely at the art burns and we understand what we were doing that was wrong. Please understand that we are now very aware of our stages ability and will never let our sound disrupt elements of the BM event.Answers to Untruths written:
We don’t go anywhere near the Temple at all nor attend the Temple burn. (any claims to us being there are false)
We don’t sell anything or promote sales of anything.
We don’t touch or move peoples bikes. (we kindly ask people not to put bikes in the dancing area, this is for safety)
We don’t throw up on people. (personally my favorite comment we received)
We don’t argue, fight or get violent. (Every issue we encounter is dealt with in a respectable professional manner)We as a group have dedicated our time money and energy into building this art car and the performance that surrounds it solely for the purpose of attending Burning Man.
Way to much blood sweat and tears have been put in for this vehicle and its creators to not make it to its purposeful place.Resolve is easy: 1. We leave the Sound System at camp for all of the art burns and attend them quietly with just the Space Ship.
2. We do not allow any MC’s or Microphones on our art car anymore.
3. As always keep our sound facing outer playa.
I am humbly asking if you will please take this apology and understanding letter from me into account and please grant us the ability to bring our art vehicle to the most important event in our lives. We live and breath Burning Man and have been positive participants for over a decade please allow us to continue to grow and be a part!
We are only human, mistakes are inevitable, its what we do to correct them that matters. Let us show you this year please allow us to attend with our car we have so much invested in.
Sincerely, Captain Philip lead for the Dancetronauts.
Ok I totally understand and really do want to settle everything.
As you know the Dancetronauts have been doing there thing with passion and professionalism for several years now and as we have grown we have learned many things. We always listen whenever we have made mistakes or made someone unhappy and make the changes in our lives to help accommodate the widest range of demographic we can. This is no easy task as you can never make everyone happy. But what we do try and do is minimize any negative impact we may have along our way and I feel that this is a case of that. We are very apologetic of the fact that we disturbed a several peoples experience at Burning Man with whatever we were doing as a group in our chosen area. We have been doing the same things each year at the same places so that our followers and people that are not have a really good Idea of where you might find us. For an amazing or not so fun experience depending on how you view us. There are things I don’t like at Burning Man, I let them be, That’s what its about right? Social acceptance? I have been attending BM since 1999 and know just about every aspect of how it works, Including having made very close friends with Larry Harvey and his entire family and the people that have been around him from the start. I should know more than many about how Burning Man works in entirety because I know things that the average person does not by being around the family of people that have created it.In our defense: I choose to stay away from those “Art Cars” or “Camps”. that I do not wish to be around. The Playa is an outrageously huge place and everyone has the “Choice” to be effected by something. I don’t go and scream at peoples Camp gates about how “plug and play camps are wrong”
Or many of the other things that some of the people complaining about us have been doing ( when I did my research I’d found out that many of the bloggers speaking about us and causing a stink were actually attacking almost everything, even at many times contradicting there own selves.)
First off we are SOBER when we operate at all times! That means everyone representing us in a suit or hottie outfit is in any way under the influence.Dancetronauts play it safe, we have a 20 person dedicated team with a US Marshall, 2 EMT’s,3 Fire Dpt and an ER DOC! To add we also have 10 spotters with CB radios reporting at all times. Our fire effects are certified by the Las Vegas Fire Department and nationwide our record with the Sheriff, BLM, Rangers is spotless and impeccable. In fact we have won their award for excellence every year since we have been on the Playa with this set up and get visited by them all every year to show us their support by shaking all our hands and taking pictures with us.We work for the utmost in respect for what we do as a group.What we did wrong?
We did promote ourselves as a group,as does OT,APEX,White Ocean,Charlie,Question? and all others. We know our limitations and stay within them.
We did promote our music. It is available for free as our gift! again there is nothing wrong with promoting our art for free.
We did play loud dance music, as does the car right next to us (Kaliope 100,000watts, Robot Heart 100,000watts, The Mayan warior 200,000WATTS!)
We did make thousands of people come together and dance and have a powerful experience that they came to Burning Man for.
We did our best to be observant and execute everything we do in a professional manner.
We did follow all the rules of Burning Man as we have done for years.I hope this response sheds some light on how me, “Philip Plastina” the Creator and Father to all of these Dancetronauts, moves through life with concern and a genuine heartfelt passion for everything around me. You have my sincerest apologies towards anyone we did affect in a negative way, Regards.
Which all boils down to, IF, one DJ hadn’t made some poor word choices on the mic, you would be left with what any large art car with sound is… A few sound complaints.The majority of the complaints, repetitive, exaggerated, inaccurate and all sighting the exact same incident, which is factual, just in their own words. Yes we have many complaints, but they are all about the same thing, we had several thousand people out front our vehicle who experienced it that night. This was not an ongoing thing throughout the week or were there multiple
Incidences. One night, one burn, one DJ…Too loud? Not any louder than any other large sound vehicle.Obnoxious, big yes, we win EDM and own that.Anyone who says their burn was ruined or affected by us, had the right and freedom to move and go freely. I imagine this happens all the time, all week, which is why we all choose to go, stay and be during out burn. No Victims at the burn. I am sure this will only result to people avoiding us in future years to come. Just like I personally avoid the ‘Black Hole’, Mayan Warrior or the crazy loud obnoxious punk hardcore metal camp that exists and handful of others. Hard to call some of those very harsh opinions and judgements that people want to express as actual valid complaints. People want to rant about what they like and for like and be a critic for you guys, lol. Or the additional false info like our dancers get paid or any of us for that matter. Dancetronauts, rather than douchetronauts, most deservingly should be ridiculed as ‘Debtronauts’. I don’t need to defend anymore erroneous claims.I personally, before all this, had already reached out and resolved the communication gap with the fire brigade. And that has been resolved and future resolve with the fire brigades before hand to ensure they have their show, music etc that we can help accommodate. Just like we always do, just like we did with Flameology this past weekend in Las Vegas. And if this had been communicated before and or during and not AFTER, this would have never been an Issue at all.So let’s talk RESOLVE. And obviously we are a part of a possible Larger problem when it comes to people complaining about large art cars and their Mobile sound systems. Whatever you guys decide, let it be across the board, not just single us out. We are already the scapegoat, that’s fine, but we do expect everyone to be held to the Resolve.We weren’t anywhere we weren’t supposed to be.There is no safety issues. And by the way the caution tape was in front of Boogie Man Castle because of SAFETY and his large fire effects that we team up With him for Burn Night. Other than one persons plug, we didn’t do anything we shouldn’t have.So…
No mics on burn night?
No music burn night?We we’re never near, aimed at Temple or even in attendance for Temple Burn.Alien Siege complaints is the same group of bloggers jumping on. There’s no other complaints nor do we have a history or record of ruining art installations, burns etc. Thursday night/Friday morning we demonstrated this for Embrace burn. I think there’s a slight difference between this years complaints and any previous years, which is funny for a group and art car which has been doing the same thing, with the same group, same art cars, same sound system, in the same spots for 5 years on the playa now. This is not a right or entitlement on our part, I just want to point out not much has changed and what has, has only improved.
Guilty of loud noise, specifically on burn night.
Guilty of a dj promoting his album on that same burn night.
We are awesome and in-compliance and want resolve so we can live up to the perfect image we have created for ourselves. We already have our own work cut out for us to win back the many we let down in the such a ‘forgiving’ community. We are mindful, conscious burners who do a very good job of as hearing and respecting all rules and burners. After all we are contributors who do a lot for nothing at this event, so if we are not wanted, please make it public so we can start planning next years new camp and artcar. Because you can take away our privilege of this art car, but you can’t take away the burner. The BORG are partly responsible for this and this culture and now we are being punished for living it.
What would you like us to do?
Hi… Nice to meet you Terry.And yes it has been sometime. We have been patiently awaiting to hear back from DMV to work on resolutions with full compliance on OUR part. Since we had already been punished and banned from our art cars attending the 2014 decompressions (even our ‘Strip Ship’ vehicle which has no sound or violations). Now further denying us Is maximum punishment without any resolve. Pretty disappointing this is the BORGS resolution, without even working out any solutions with it’s artists.Sincere thanks for solely picking out items you could belittle and disregarding any attempts to resolve anything. Those items you highlighted were not said in our defense, or in anyway, not acknowledging our mistake. Which is why my clearly stated informal response to Chef Duke since, I am not the registered art car owner. Was to clear up the that the overwhelming number of complaints could be summed up from the couple hours they came from, specifically after we had one of our Dj’s promote his free album (yes, shameless self promotion, we know) & when you have 1000’s of people in attendance ENJOYING themselves and 100’s who are not within listening distance, it pissed off a lot of folks and sent a ripple through the crowd for the next couple hours of ‘F-this guy’ and who is this guy and ‘Dancetronauts’ takes the hit, no excuses.Our famous Dj’s are award winning Grammy artists who choose to play on the sound, art and stage we have hand built and created. We have thousands who appreciate it and just because some may not like the; music, style, artists, etc of what we do or offer because it doesn’t fit their ideal of what should and shouldn’t be at Burning Man, that we should no longer be invited? Hey, some people don’t like steampunk! But that’s the beauty of Burning Man, or so I thought?And my continued points of what we bring to the community is part of our civic responsibility that I was only trying to show some positive light on. That 99% of the time, we do a great job! And we do and we give a lot to the community and that the civic responsibility is not in question. There should be no impression or should we be punished by your board members that we are out of control, unsafe, maniacs and no longer invited. We are a collective alike. Conscious, mindful, intelligent, talented, responsible artists and like to have fun, again, sorry if ‘Dancetronauts’ got carried away for a moment with volume level and if we need to agree to certain parameters around our sound, time, placement etc. Then we are all ears?Otherwise this is obviously personal by your elite group of BORG members and somebody’s bruised ego has now made the impression of Dancetronauts that this hard working group of responsible strangers, you’ve never had any personal interaction with, are NOW some rampant liability or have really ruined or harmed anyone?We are guilty of the the infraction that our sound was too loud at Burning Man, on burn night, of all places, which we admit was indeed being played loud, yet at a safe volume (among dozens of others). We built this for burning, the only fully hand built custom sound system on the playa, this is our art. if you can’t bring music and play our art at burning man, then where on else on earth can you? We live and are a part of this community and EDM, which does this and supports Burning Man year round.There are no victims here. 65,000+ other people on this night who had no clue or could hear about our presence. The Art Car gets there hours early and stays hours after, year after year, we don’t move for 6+ HOURS and we are a registered as a SOUND VEHICLE. We do apologize if was overpowering to anyone else and who also couldn’t move, if it had been properly communicated we would have turned it down. And something we could resolve or work with fire conclaves in the future about. But no surprises and yes anyone who felt so entitled to their ‘spot’ could have stayed, suffered and complained OR they could have walked 100ft in another direction and been inconvenienced for that short amount of time to then enjoy the rest of their burn however they felt was best for them. I feel like I am explaining freedom, so I will stop. Since this can and may be disregarded or meaningless excerpts taken out of context like my previous email.We have ALL taken full responsibility and accountability that our mutant vehicle was being played too loud at a particular time that many felt was inappropriate. The sound has volume, which is something we can control and feel 99% of the time we do. There is solution and resolve, we can and have played at appropriate times and levels for hours, days and years. Now ONE DJ, his set and these hours, have completely jeopardized everything we’ve been working on for the past 7 years on the playa. We are a part of Burning Man & bring something that nobody else does. So many solutions and resolutions, yet our efforts for resolve go neglected for months and an email from a stranger just saying no and that we haven’t presented enough resolve is much easier? Please don’t take this away from us on account that DMV refuses to work with us on the numerous solutions that can prevent this from happening in the future;- No microphones for DJ’s or emergency announcements only
– All music off at Burn Night
– Or just Dancetronauts silent on Burn Night
– Separate Art Car or Sound Perimeter that all cars to be behind if they are playing music.
– Since Borg has their ideal ways of how everyone should burn, why don’t they just broadcast what they want to hear and all sound vehicles could play it? Sad our passion and amazing sound system and creation isn’t being utilized or there is no organization to prevent this by taking control of the entire 3hrs we were so disruptive. You want Burn to be and sound a certain way… then let’s make it happen! Rather than denying creations to YOUR event.
-We would have loved to work with the fire conclave and play their music so people could hear it for their performance.We know how, when and where volume and sound needs to be, because we have been doing it successfully for 7 years and this last Burn on Burn night we pushed the limit and thank you for working with us and informing us of these occasional mistakes when they do occur. We have already discussed some of the further steps of our own to set certain volume levels that can’t be exceeded. As well as, let our Dj’s, artists and crew know ahead of time of these very important differences of playing at Burning Man compared to the default world and so on.To error is to be human,
Last and final time. The indie gogo fundraiser was set up by a 3rd party and that small typo was taken down within 24hrs of it being posted. WE ARE FULLY AWARE and it was immediately resolved. No such offering or exchange actually took place. But thanks for bringing it up every chance you get and pinning us to the cross relentlessly about it. Wish we didn’t need to do fundraisers to raise the $$,$$$ we need to get our camp, infrastructure and art cars to the burn, but it’s either that or our tickets go to more spectators instead.
[Update 6/14/15 5:55pm PST]
This post is blowing up within our community more than usual. And rightly so.
This situation with Dancetronauts is a great chance for BMOrg, Larry & Co, McLarry, DMV Council, BMHQ, BMPBOD, whatever group it is, to show some leadership and wisdom. Say “we realize this decision made by a volunteer team who changed their leader in the middle of it all was just a bit too harsh, so we’ve vetoed it”. They could easily just step up and show all of us Burners that they are on the same wavelength that we are – rather than that they are broadcasting on their own bizarre wavelength, and trusting that we’ll tune in and follow any commandments we hear, whether they make sense or not.
The wavelength of Burners is: Dancetronauts rock. Art cars rock. Art cars playing great music rock. If they light up and have dancing boys and girls, even better. Free parties rock. Free parties with internationally recognized award-winning musicians rock.
We get this stuff for free, people. Think about how amazing that is for a moment.
Then think about the kind of asshole you would have to be to hate on that, to punish it: not just “turn the music down”, but exile, banishment, slander, public humiliation.
Are these supposed to be the values of Burners, now that the Tin Principles are just guidelines? Is this where burningman.com wants to take us?
I have more to say on this issue, but I don’t have much free time right now to write another big post. So in the meantime I want to hear from you: YES YOU. The Burners. I don’t care if burningman.com labels you as “After Burners”, if you ask me: Burn once and you are always a Burner. I have met many people who have not Burned yet, who are clearly Burners. These Burnier-Than-Thous, though? I’m not sure about them. I’m not sure they deserve to be dignified with the sacred moniker of Burner.
Whatever your position, please share it: there is no other place for our community to have this conversation transparently. .
Is this blog I made to share my opinions about Burner culture free from any bias? DUH. It is a personal weblog. It is biased towards thinking that my opinion is correct. That is what an opinion is. Maybe yours is more correct than mine, if so: prove it. Give me some statistics, some references, some evidence, some proof: just like I am giving you here. Fight my logic with your logic!
If anyone thinks this post is biased somewhat on the side of Dancetronauts, and not really supportive of BMOrg and their various decision making groups, they are absolutely right. Even so, I have tried to stick to the facts. If anyone can refute any of the facts, please do so in the comments. Some Burners have done so already, and I thank them deeply for their contributions to this conversation that is open to all of us to participate in.
I do think Dancetronauts have been hard done by in this situation, and do not deserve this treatment from Burning Man 2.0 Inc Ruling Group. I do think BMOrg/DMV Council/McLarry/Ruling Group/Whoever the decision makers are/The Man are being unfair and unreasonable about this matter.
Is there even such a thing as “so and so ruined my Burn”? I mean, I have definitely had times out there where people – even friends and family – pissed me off, killed my buzz, negged my happy vibe because they thought their own needs were more important than mine. Their ego and desire to “do this now” butted heads with mine, and only one thing could be done – so it was either fight, flight, or compromise. HELLO! That’s frikking Burning Man. Isn’t it? Or is “fuck yer day” no longer appropriate? Instead, we must all say “excuse me, please gift me whatever you have, have a nice day, donate to burningman.org, here’s a wristband”
[Update 6/15/15 0:05 PST]
For those who are interested, or doubt the veracity of this story, you can find the entire archive of complaints here.
You can also watch the YouTube videos I posted in this article and see for yourself.
[Update 6/15/15 11:39am PST]
Several readers have commented that they thought this story was from The Onion. Sadly, not. This one is satirical, though:
One Burner has informed us that Chef Juke is still head of the DMV Council, he didn’t quit. So why did he hand-ball this interaction with Dancetronauts to someone else, after earlier suggesting he was open to compromise? He’s happy to just abuse us, rather than explain himself and help everybody get to the truth:
Please correct any facts we have wrong, Chef. If you can.
Now that it’s Monday in San Francisco, and the paid employees of BMOrg are waking up, this post is collecting the typical Kool Aid response. This includes:
1. Burners.Me is lies, virtiol, half truths
2. Burners.Me is like Fox News
3. Burners.Me has a hidden agenda
4. Burners.Me is part of Dancetronauts
None of these Burnier-Than-Thou haters ever bother to suggest which media property they would prefer this blog to be modeled on instead. If the most successful news channel in the world is not credible enough to discuss Burning Man, then the Wall Street Journal, perhaps?
The only agenda anyone has suggested for me is hate, which doesn’t make a lot of sense. I love Burning Man, that’s why I have been writing this blog for years. There is no person on earth who has promoted Burning Man more than me. If I hated it, the stories would be very different.
People who never even went to Burning Man before 2010, don’t get to lecture me that they are better Burners. There is no such thing as “better Burners” or “special Burners”, who is telling you this? If you love Burning Man too, why not write your own blog? If you can’t be bothered, then don’t say “I get Burning Man more than you do” and then dismiss me. Explain yourself. Prove your claims. Give us some references and facts, like we do.
Let me state this unequivocally: I am not part of Dancetronauts. I’ve met some of them, and they were all lovely people. Kind, welcoming, inclusive, genuine – good souls. They do not deserve this hate campaign, no Burner does: “Radical Inclusion” should not mean “except for all the ones we decide to hate”.
When I ask these people who accuse me of all this bullshit to “please give an example of the lies or half truths”, they all vanish from the conversation immediately. “You lie all the time, but we can’t find any examples; so you should just provide them to us to support our accusations”. Good one! I have spent years now asking the people who say we’re not speaking the truth, to provide even one example of that. Still, nothing.
Others have said “you only looked at one side of this story”, which is not true. I have spent a lot of hours looking into this particular story. I guarantee you I have done more research than anyone else reading this! I have now posted the entire list of all complaints. I also posted multiple pieces of video evidence, some favorable to Dancetronauts, some less so. You can see for yourself, or, if you find other recordings, please share.
Still others suggest “you should reveal every single confidential email sent by BMOrg to Dancetronauts”…and maybe I will, in a future post when an Anonymous Burner source emerges to give me those – like Decibel has done in the comments here, sharing a single email (not a chain like they claimed to have) that did not support their point in any way. Am I supposed to just throw my sources (at BMHQ and elsewhere) under the bus and create potential legal/career problems for them, just because some trolls demand it? If I don’t give readers the name and address of a source, does that mean I’m just inventing it? What would motivate me to do that? NPD?
Any regular reader of this blog can see that we have always protected the confidentiality and anonymity of our sources.
Some are saying “why don’t you look at ePlaya, that’s where the facts and evidence are”…I find this idea hilarious.
Do people really think I just woke up one day and decided to write a bunch of lies, just to spite people? Even when the trolls ask me for Further proof and I provide it, they spin that to somehow be their example of how much I am lying: WTF!!! This is non-sense. No-one at BMOrg would ever lie, of course not, a Minister of Propaganda is the same as the Ministry of Truth. Their statements are only for your own protection and to showcase BMOrg’s exemplary integrity, to truly make this Art Festival wonderful. Excellence and entertainment are the motivation, and of course making the world a better place with Propaganda.
Imagine if instead of saying “Burners.Me is lying because I have all these emails that they didn’t share”, these haters actually shared them with everybody?
What if they said “here are some details Burners.Me didn’t mention” and offered some proof of these details they’re referring to?
Would the world end? Would Burning Man be “ruined”? Or could everything be transparent and open, a discussion for the entire Burner community to have – frankly, honestly, constructively? I am all for critics making points against us, if they can back it up with something. A quote, a story, an example: ANYTHING! They seldom do, though. Above the pay grade of the cyber-trolls, perhaps. Slander, yes. Name-calling, no problem. “Give an example of the accusation you’re making”, never.
Is it a sin to publicly discuss BMOrg’s decisions now? “Oh Burners aren’t capable of talking about Burning Man with facts and information, they should just shut up and get their facts from ePlaya.burningman.com and Jackrabbit Speaks, these are the only true facts”.
BMOrg has just told us “concierges are welcome” and “concierges are banned” at the same time…nothing inconsistent about that, is there? Only the “Fox News of Burning Man” would highlight to readers that this is contradictory, and encourage them to make up their own minds – with links to all the evidence.
If you don’t like this story, and want to challenge the facts, then please share your proof. What have I said that you think is wrong? What have I said that has been misconstrued? Did Dancetronauts not get banned from Burning Man events for at least a year? Are they still welcome at all Regionals? Please share eyewitness accounts, emails, or whatever else you have. The more sources of information we have, the better! This is what transparency is all about.
[Update 6/16/15 3:47pm PST]
Decibel, Randy, Let’s Talk and others have pointed out that Dancetronauts have not been banned from any of the Regionals and Decompressions that still operate outside of BMOrg control – only the Nevada burn and the SF Decom, which is the only one put on by BMOrg.
Randy has said Dancetronauts would be welcomed at any of the Texas regionals. He has specifically invited them to “freezerburn this winter and to mscvhevia this fall”.
Valdemoort informed us that they played last month at unSCruz, the Santa Cruz regional.
One reader reports that BMOrg have previously paid $5000 to Dancetronauts to play at Decompressions, so at some point BMOrg were perfectly fine with the art car financing itself by performing at events outside of Black Rock City.
I have updated this story accordingly, although I don’t think it changes the substance of this situation in any way – banning something at Burning Man loved by thousands because of a couple of dozen complaints about 2 minor incidents is just wrong.
This is a great opportunity for various Regionals to step up and invite Dancetronauts, to show them that the Burner community still loves and welcomes them even if BMOrg doesn’t.
Let’s Talk has suggested that Dancetronauts could come to the Nevada burn with their uniforms but no art car, and participate by teaming up with someone else; and maybe they will end up doing that. Or maybe we will be lucky to ever see them at Burning Man again, given the way they have been treated.
Another reader complained that my iPhone dock example was not really a standard 300w stereo because it cost a lot. So here is a picture of a more regular looking 300w stereo.
The good news is the haters are now saying “Burners.Me is full of half truths” rather than the old “Burners.Me is full of lies”. A step in the right direction! Next will be “Burners.Me is usually true, occasionally they get something wrong but they correct themselves when evidence is presented”…
this is what u get when u r too pussy to criticize the BORG for more important shit
where is whatsblem the pro when u really need him
Perhaps it was “one of the loved art cars” in THEIR MINDS…most burners I know didn’t like them at all. Pushing fans off rom the art car who climbed aboard unwelcomed, were nasty to those in need, and most importantly, violated the basic remnants of the festive. I had an inside perspective as part of the hospital-team for seven years, and I can assure you, NO ONE from the Org, BLM, and Fire/LE/EMS/Hospital, NO ONE with whom I spoke with ever said they “liked” this group, who was rightfully banned.
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BTW the DJ was Diplo, but yet he was there playing in 2015, nothing happened to him, no ban etc. The ORG just makes up shit for their own agenda, they want to get away from being a “music festival” to avoid taxes, etc, just like banning opulent temple for not being “interactive enough”, but yet white ocean had their spot, but they are a private funded camp, just like hearing Marion (The new CEO of Burning Man) on BMIR this year, she said “Nevada’s new tax may not make Burning Man happen as they need that extra money for the Black Rock Arts Foundation” It has come down to money now, Like she said again on the radio “Well we know the plug and play camps couldn’t happen with out placement, so we went ahead and gave them placement again this year” I wonder how much that cost?.? She did say all of this in 2015 on BMIR
Well they didn’t do the golden rule of “how much do we have to pay you(err “donate to Black Rock Arts Foundation”) to be there. As that is thier biggest embezzlement source
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Was so bummed Dancetronauts was not there this year. I heard absolutely no hard electro/techno at any of the parties. Severely disappointed. The noise violation was a joke. Ban the DJ for plugging, not the entire camp! Obviously. I saved up all year and looked forward to dancetronauts. The art car dance parties severely suffered this year.
A ray of sunshine in the gloom. Perhaps the BRC acoustic environment will belong to the people, not the amplifier.
Perhaps you could be more passive aggressively cheeky.
Sure… Don’t you think everyone in BRC would be happier if they did not have to contend with amplified sound but could let the sound level be made from the efforts of the many instead the man with the volume control?
How did I do?
If they can’t go, we’re not going either.
Oh NO!! What theme camp, art car or playa art will we be missing with your absence?
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Question for Phil: Why don’t you give credit where credit is due, your speakers (DR280 mains. Tuba 60 subs) were built from plans that you got from Bill Fitzmaurice, plans that anyone can get at Bill’s website?
I really wish this article would be more specific about the “DJ who got on the mic, said his name and that he had a new album coming out he wanted to gift to the crowd for free.” Is it that hard to NAME A NAME? My suspicion is that it was Diplo, who — being a second-year Burner — really has no excuse for “not getting it.” He basically did this same shameless self-promoting plug at every gig he played on the playa, treating Burning Man the exact same way as if it were a traditional EDM festival like EDC or something. They should ban HIM (or whichever DJ did this) — not Dancetronauts.
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I didn’t read all of this….but this is the first I heard about your camp being banned. As a graveyard shift bike mobile ranger, I did a lot of patrolling of parties in the deep playa and around 10 and 2, just checking for medical issues that needed calling in. So, noise and parties are definitely part of my playa experience. I don’t mind that, I choose that. However, that is not true of all participants. That is why BM has established things like “walk in camping” and so forth….some people do enjoy quiet, and the open vast space of the playa is very important to them. They come to enjoy the event too, and not every contribution to the event involves sound systems. People come to meet and talk and share ideas, to share other art forms than sound art, to go to workshops on many topics, to simply walk around nude, to sit and drink tea…..that is what distinguishes Burning Man from some other exclusively dance oriented events such as EDM or Coachella, where you have also had success. There are many people at Burning Man who are not your audience and do not seek you out. It seems that your transgression was more one of bad taste than anything else. I think that letting someone promote themselves, even without commerce, at the Burn gathering ruffled some feathers; you tried to ride on the Hat’s coattails, and he is not pleased. This is just my suspicion, I am not one of the elite in the Org. Don’t waste your energy counting complaints and posting videos, what is done is done. You will be missed by some, not by others, and likely welcomed back, so take it in stride.
Nice, informed and thoughtful perspective, jocool. So, my question is, how does a person like you deal with The Hat and the caprice that he might “not be pleased.”
Do you just keep your head down and be sure to stay out of the line of fire?
Difficult to leave a comment either way. Yea why should anyone make complaints at burning man. Makes no sense to me. Yes loud is good. But at the same time if certain Camps were to become 100s times bigger than the others and the author of this article claims that nobody promotes burning man more than he does. Are either of those two things necessarily going to make burning man the type of festival we all want it to be? They could do but they could also make it into something we don’t want.
For example if in 5 years all the music on the Playa was EDM with thousands of popular music tainted youth dancing in front of two main stages would that have been the correct direction to move in?
If the author is responsible for attracting the type of people who just want to go to be Glam or to take without giving back, would that have been a good move by him over the years?
Like many other famous music events things have changed and we should ask ourselves where are we going with it all and is that what we really want?
Perhaps there is more to the ban than just noise complaints also there may be more damage caused by mass promotion of the event than we initially consider.
It’s all over the media now anyway and i’m not trying to have a dig at the author as he has raised a valid point and spent a great deal of time on this article/discussion.
As soon as the masses take over the event, it could become a sell out and no longer what we all wished it was. Kind of like a Mutant Event.
We all know it used to be a tiny cult like gathering on a beach which quickly grew and then the Playa was born. It will always be amazing but if the type of people change completely the event will also change completely. The art will be different, the rules will be different the people, everything. This is not necessarily a bad thing as new events will always be born to compensate for such changes. Certain types of people may no longer be attracted to an event that changes to a point where they can no longer stand going so those people may start their own thing somewhere else.
Hopefully there is enough space on the Playa to accommodate all types of people and hopefully we won’t be overrun with EDMers. A bit of everything and a good balance is what i love to see at burning man. All types of people, all types of music and all types of art. + anything strange!
I don’t believe they should have been shut down for such trivial matters but i can imagine why certain people with the power to do so chose to do so. I think that is the message here. But that may not make it the correct one. Perhaps in the organisers eyes it was the right decision as they try to model the event to what it has become. But perhaps in the party peoples eyes it was the wrong decision, depending on what type of party people you are. Either way it must be painful after they invested so much time into their project. The work looks truly amazing and the coordination must have been challenging at times.
I would dance there at least for a short while (as long as the music was good/ok).
If i didn’t like it i would move on and dance somewhere else or go on a mission somewhere.
I love the idea of many smaller stages. It is similar to my concept of keeping things small in the real world. As soon as organisation get too big there is no longer a personal element and a certain level of unhappiness starts to emerge.
Everyone is different so lets mix life up and keep a good balance. If one style of living was to take over the entire world with one set of rules (a bit like it is now :D)
Would we all be happy or just some of us?
Fuck yer Burn
Thanks Jim, great comment, please vote in our part 3 poll
The DJ promoting his wares at the ASM show was a little like the “Soap-with-a-prize-inside!” guy on the show “Deadwood” (HBO). Tacky. He had an opportunistic crowd, so he plugged away. Sort of a sonic tagging, and like a tagger thinks it is good, and has a “respect the tag, man” attitude. SOAP WITH A PRIZE INSIDE! But rest assured, there was no “sound track” for the show, and in between his prattle I am sure he was twiddling out some appropriate beats.
I have done a few big burns, and I am not sure if there is a thing about it being too loud, at least at my burns. Tell the DJs to shut their pie holes and turn the swagger knob to -30db at the burns. It ain’t about them. That is what I feel is an appropriate response to this tempest in a teacup.
My crew did mention the DJ and his yammering during clean up and post playa, and it bothered a few of them, because of the real work, the real sweat and the real emotion they had poured into the piece. The brush-off response about it being a bunch of bloggers does betray a sort of entitled arrogance emanating from the top, though. Just sayin’, and that probably has more to do with the one year ban than anything else.
Thank you, and your crew, for the Alien Siege Machine.
‘I am not sure if there is a thing about it being too loud, at least at my burns. Tell the DJs to shut their pie holes and turn the swagger knob to -30db at the burns. It ain’t about them. That is what I feel is an appropriate response…’ Awesome.
You are most welcome, but I know I speak for the crew, you honor us.
I feel I may have contributed to this early on. I responded to complaints and didn’t report back. My report is that a few my crew thought the DJ was tacky but Dtruat never endangered communication on my perimeter. No blood, no foul.
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You seem to have confused Odd Wally (Wally Bomgaars) with Chef Juke. They are not the same people.
Thanks for the clarification, it helps to get to the truth. Chef Juke was talking to Dancetronauts and then Terry Schroop said he was taking over after the departure of Wally Bomgaars. So who was Wally Bomgaars, and why did Chef Juke stop dealing with Dancetronauts after October?
Odd Wally has been involved with the Org in many capacities over the years, but he’s not involved at all anymore. Chef Juke is just some dude from the DMV, apparently communicating on behalf of the DMV Council from the sig on his emails. Perhaps comms went to people above him at some point?
By the way, another blog has posted the full email chain.
isnt a little late to be asking these questions? (before publishing might have been better)
Wally was the Project Manager of DMV.
Juke is a member of the DMV Council that normally handles all of the appeal/rejection type conversations.
Wally announced leaving in January …..
Schoop is Senior Staff and manages the Community Services Department and he stepped in to fill the role of DMV project manager after the previous one left.
as burning man depts go….. a ‘council’ tends to refer to what is essentially the management roles in a group/dept.
“isnt a little late to be asking these questions? (before publishing might have been better)…”
Call the press floor, Jimmy! Hold the bulldog!! Tell the fact-checkers to get on this if they want their paycheck on Friday. What do they think this is, some frakking blog on the internet that can be updated based on comments? This is the Burning Man publication of record. There are no do-overs. How many times do I have to tell you all that?
Miss Lane, be sure to bring up the defactification proposal again at the next editorial policy meeting. I am too old to deal with all these complaints.
Now, where is my BREAKFAST?!
“isnt a little late to be asking these questions? (before publishing might have been better)”
So true. Has this site ever cared about facts?
It’s never too late for the truth. This site has always cared about the facts , and provided links and references to back up our claims. As new information comes to light, we update the story accordingly.
It’s the other group, the one with the propaganda and troll teams, that has a disconnect between their words and their actions.
Probably the best example of Nomad and Burnerxxx’s obsession with blaming everything from dust storms to the Iraq war on the org is the fact that Dancetronauts aren’t defending themselves. They’ve said they did it, they are sorry, they will take their consequences and learn from them.
Pooh, I think it is your commmunity responsibility to shadow them when they return in 2016. Stay close to be sure you don’t miss anything.
We can only hope…
Let me just say…. COMMENT NUMBER 300!!! Woo hoo!
Woo-hoo! A new record. It’s good to see both sides of the argument being debated here. Where else can Burners speak freely without censorship, these days?
Awesome post, and updates, burnersxxx. I am most impressed in regards of numerous awesome Burners, whom have participated, and contributed, towards the throwing of awesome crowd sourced party for numerous burns, have stated their beliefs.
Pretty much anywhere.
If you post like I do on FB, their surrogates will flag your profile as not being a real person. That’s why you cannot find Nomad Traveler on FB anymore. They drove Nomad Traveler away, with two separate rounds of flagging. Not a good way of winning friends, but clearly seeking to censor me.
Though it has not happened to me, I have heard of people whose eplaya and blog posts have disappeared. Considering who has edit/delete capability, people will moderate what they say, unlike here. As Weizenbaum observed in the book Computer Power and Human Reason, people’s behavior is modified in real time by their perception of a gun and what it can do, regardless of their real experience. Implied censorship risk intimidation is operative on any of the BOorg-controlled sites, whether you acknowledge it or not.
I vote that all music be shut off as soon as the firedancers start until the Man has fallen. The beauty of the firedancers and the burn itself is really ruined by the onslaught of loud conflicting music.
I think the firedancers ruin the burn. They turn everyone into spectators. Unless it’s your first burn, you’ve already seen that movie and reruns suck.
Or just leave during the Man burn, like I do. No traffic. It’s awesome.
Or just watch it on the web, and instead contibute and volunteer for an activity or event where you can support the things your believe in and can make a difference. Also no traffic if you time it right. Also awsome and far less dust. Besides, the Transformus mud is much easier to remove.
Might want to watch it before the BOrg decides to make it pay-per-view. Nothing like paying to see a jumped shark.
I agree, but I could barely see the fire dancers. Everyone has to sit down so if you’re a few rows back, you’re just looking the occasional burst of fire. There should be a way for them to be elevated. Otherwise you’re just kind of sitting there.
The fire dancers could dance atop a stage made from the dance car speakers.
So for years and years, people have complained about the “Frat Boys” who show up at Burning Man, typically towards the end of the week. I’ve never thought this was a big deal, sure once in awhile you see a “frat boy” type, some goober walking around with a baseball hat on backwards, wearing a muscle shirt etc with a guido spray-on tan, but they are far and few between. The great thing about Dancetranaughts though, it was like a Douche-Magnet, all the “frat boys” would congregate in one place, following their art car around the playa like frat boy follows a drunk sorority girl. So at least the minority douchebag population on the playa was concentrated and easily avoidable. My worry now is that the douche will now disperse, have nowhere to go, and spread throughout the city.
“The great thing about Dancetranaughts though, it was like a Douche-Magnet”
Ha ha, that is SO true!
Robin is just angry because she couldn’t get laid at Dancetronauts.
So if they are not on the playa, that means that they will be attracting elsewhere…. …No, I like the idea of having all the shallow idiots in one place as much as possible. This increases the chance of the gods culling the gene pool with a single meteor strike. Another reason for Congress to be in session as much as possible.
The challenge now is to figure out how to get the rapists and child molesters to follow the Douche-Magnet too. After all, can’t be TOO hard. Congress figured it out.
…Thank you, thank you. Don’t forget to tip your waitress. I will be here all week.
Stick to your day job, which as far as I can tell is shoehorning NPD into every conversation.
As someone who was a former raver, a huge audiophile, dance music enthusiast, and a hip hop/club/freestyle dancer, I can honestly say the dance cars were severely lacking this year (RoboHeart was okay a couple of times). Dancetronauts may have attracted a group you have particularly strong judgments about, but whenever the DJ’s would spin I and everyone around me would dance our asses off.
And the rest of the 68,000 people bizarrely found theme camps, art cars and playa art that was more interesting to them. Imagine that: coming to the NV burn and not spend the week dancing. After all, where else can you dance to EDM? What a missed opportunity!
>…BMOrg have previously paid $5000 to Dancetronauts to play at Decompressions
This could be a simple case of having missed the opportunity to kiss the ring. Someone in BMorg may have asked Dancetronauts to show up at ‘7:30 and Wherever’ for a private party of some kind and Dancetronauts didn’t show up.
It’s not so much the decibel level that’s offending, it’s that the music fukking sux
I thought the reason Dancetraunauts was banned had nothing to do with their sound levels, but because they exceeded their “Bro douchebag” quota the past few years?
Just for the hell of it, I copied and pasted the body of this post into a document.
Holy fuck… 34 pages? I think your point (that you think the BORG is treating you unfairly) could have been made in a paragraph or two.
You’re not only too loud, you’re really long winded.
I’m sorry your burn isn’t going as you planned this year. That sucks, I wouldn’t want it to happen to me, but you’ll be ok. If you can’t enjoy the playa without 50,000db, then maybe it’s not the place for you. That being said, I find myself struggling with the noise issue and I’m tired of hearing people complain about all the rules and their inability to what ever they want…
Do whatever the fuck you want, but only if you support my right do whatever the fuck I want to you and don’t complain about it.
I’m all for the BORG imposing rules, even if it means we can’t do whatever we want. It’s gotten that way because assholes push themselves onto others. The rules, (what few there are) provide a framework to work within. Yeah, some folks are going to get screwed. Thats unfortunate. But the alternative is worse for the event.
But the demolition derby of moral posturing is fun to watch. 🙂
…and still people complain that I didn’t post enough evidence, BMOrg emails, etc! Lucky for you Part II is coming. PS I am not part of Dancetronauts. Maybe read the story instead of cutting and pasting it into other documents!
It’d be nice if you’d just post the Cliff Notes version for the people that have lives. I’m filing: The Dancetronauts can’t come to Burning Man under, “Mildly Interesting.” Hardly an injustice…
Cliff notes version: They got a warning in 2013, and so were on probation for 2014. On burn night 2014, they played loud enough that the people in fire conclave, a few hundred feet away, couldn’t hear their drummers or organizers, and they got a bunch of complaints. Then their DJ started advertising himself and his upcoming cd release. So they were denied a mutant vehicle permit for 2015. The rest is histrionics.
All of that is already in my TL;DR section at the start.
Histrionics…. Probably not the definition you were using. Or maybe it was….
In addendum of the Cliff Notes, the fire troupes, the BMOrg and DMV organizers, and others within the circle had radios, of which, the proper manner of response was to utilize the radios, to instruct of a BRC Ranger, or of a DMV Hottie, to require of the Dancetronauts to turn the sound of their mutant vehicle low, or perchance, off. And of the BMOrg did not desire to converse, or meet, with a group whom brought a near to $100,000 mutant vehicle purposed to provide entertainment towards their ticket buyers, towards whom, the BMOrg pays $0, thusly are owed the Gratitude of conversing, and meeting, with them purposed to gain resolution of the matters.
In addendum of, perchance, whatever politics, and other matters, might be occurring above the DMV Hotties, most of whom are awesome.
Umm, it’s the cliff notes…
Also, wasn’t trying to issue a DSM 5 clinical diagnosis, I think the common parlance definition is more than accurate.
plural noun: histrionics
exaggerated dramatic behavior designed to attract attention.
“discussions around the issue have been based as much in histrionics as in history”
What’s up with the heavy handed punishment? No was injured or killed. A hand full of complaints. A willingness to change and comply. Seems like there is some huge ego’s at BMorg getting in the way. My opinion is the Dancetronauts bring far more to the party then they take away. Come on! Can’t we all just get along! I hope more people express their opinions.
It’d be nice if you’d just post the Cliff Notes version for the people that have lives. I’m filing: The Dancetronauts can’t come to Burning Man under, “Mildly Interesting.” Hardly an injustice…
Thank you Robyn, that was to the point. Hard to see why more needs to be said.
Can we move on?
Move on? Absolutely not! We are SO close to 300 comments….
you have complained in the latest update that people are saying this blog is misleading, or has half truths. Here’s one of the reasons why, and I would love your thoughts on it, and a response.
Burners.ME has posted that Dancetronauts have been banned from burning man all regionals for a year. One of the reasons that it seems like a sensational post, or a half-truth is that this seems different than what has happened on a number of key points.
1- They were denied a mutant vehicle pass.
This means the dancetronauts as a group aren’t banned and could
– Show up as a group in costume and have the dancetro-hotties (as they term them) perform anywhere
– Team up with a camp and use their decorations and sound system and organize a lineup, just not a mobile lineup
2- There’s no documentation that they were banned from regionals
this would mean they also could not attend or buy tickets. Right now the only presented proof shows that they were just not approved to join SF Decom, when they have appeared at multiple decoms (including their home town of vegas) before.
So burnersXXX what are your thoughts on these differences in what has been described in the articles and posts, and what we are seeing in the documentation?
and if you’re wondering, this kind of journalistic attention to detail is something we would love to see here at burners.me which has the ear of so many burners.
Fair points, and thank you for putting them politely. I have been making efforts to confirm the regional ban, and a regional guy from Texas has invited them. So that may indeed have been inaccurate . I have already changed the copy on Facebook and am working on Part Two of this story which will be out in the next day or two.
The email from DMV specifically asks Dancetronauts to take a year off, not their art car. My update will cover this and other relevant information from BMOrg’s online cohort.
They were at unSCruz, the Santa Cruz regional, last month.
Also, the email (posted previously in the comments) says they were denied a mutant vehicle license for 2015, and were welcome to reapply in 2016. It says nothing about a personal ban, just a denial of DMV permit for the art car. Do you have different email?
Yes much more
You’ve been making efforts to confirm the regional ban? How’s that working out for you?
That has already been corrected and the story updated. Dancetronauts thought they were banned from all Regionals, turns out it was only SF Decom. Other Regionals have invited them already, including New Mexico and Texas. I think it is wonderful to see Burners from the Regional events stepping up to show Dancetronauts they are still very welcome in our community.
I would love to see a consolidated list of everything you are not allowed to do at burning man. I think people would be surprised.
First on the list: Do not question the BOrg or their divine actions.
Great idea for a post, thanks Cooter
Cooter, might you desire to pen a guest post upon these matters? A list for ticket buyers, and a list purposed towards any whom might desire to contribute to the crowd sourced party, in the manner of theme camps, art, mutant vehicles, food, fire, sound, regional events, volunteer labour, and other matters?
ABalancedPerspective you are right to call me on it but i’m still going to punt. 🙂
I did not desire to call you on it, it is solely of Burning Man is a doacracy. Might you desire something to be done, do it.
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I may be mistaken, but here goes.
2003 to present for me. There has been an arms race of sorts with art car’s sound systems. In the early years one of my very favorite things was lingering at the Man’s post burn coals and soaking up the primal scene: naked dancers, people huddling, spontaneous human level things, and particularly the drum circles that set the tribal, primal mood. Voices could be heard at a distance. There was social revelry and group consciousness. This just does not happen any more. The ring of art cars literally drown out the drum circles now, and they are pretty much extinct in the after burn gathering. Any verbal data cannot carry more than a foot or two rather than a good few yards as in the past, and this verbal interplay was what made the social magic happen.
I accept the change, but very much miss what it was.
I still linger around the coals, but it is relative to the past, a socially dead experience now because the amplified music sound levels there kill it, and have killed it.
When I started attending the burn 20 years ago the sound camps had already been banished to 2 & 10 for being too loud for the rest of the city but they weren’t nearly as loud as they are now. I danced at the Deep End and at another club at 10 & Esplanade in a big dome; indoors somewhat and my ears didn’t get blasted out.
What I want to know is what is the PROCESS for mitigating inappropriate behavior or sound levels? To me it seems wholly unfair for the representatives of the org to file complaints at one year’s event and the subjects not even be notified of the complaints until they try to register for the event.
Greed or not, there is not a single burner out there that dosen’t know how expensive it can be just to attend, let alone try to bring large scale art, art car, or camp to the playa. waiting til halfway through the year to tell someone they are banned for a year is wholly unfair. Bt then a lot of money and time has already spent int he default world to ensure the projects move forward.
I know I am actually pretty peeved about getting a sound complaint on our art car and not finding out about it until registration? ANd supposedly is was an official member of the org that filed the complaint? Gee, did that person once tr to ak us to mitigate the levels during the event? No not at all.
Regardless of this fantasy of a “gift economy” on playa, the default world costs astronomical amounts of money. In order to bring large gifts, organizers spend a lot of time, sweat equity, and often money just getting to the playa. If there is to be a penalty system in place for nuisances, it needs to still respect all involved parties because we all don;t get in for free. At least give people a warning time, and time to react to the warnings, especially on playa , as they happen.
If you’re part of the Dancetronauts crew, can you tell us if you’re aware of any warning given to Dancetronauts in 2013?
Off topic: Bryan, just saw from your Facebook page that you’re doing the Scouts for Equality thing. Thank you, sir! I have two sons in Scouts right now and I’m a scout leader, I fully support your efforts. We’re half way there with gay scouts being welcome. Keep up the good fight!
My Dad ran the scouts in New Zealand for 8 years (I was not one myself). Great organization
DMV issued us a warning for OUR art car for being” too loud” too, at the Santa Cruz Wave, ironically after being invited to the Wave burn and the DJ playing was provided by the Santa Cruz Wave build crew. It was like the ultimate slap int he ace. Here come play for oue burn. Here’s a bunch of loud surf rock. Then w go to register the next year to hear someone complained? ONE complaint, And the suck of it all is that the complainers are completely anonymous. So if someone with a fragile ego decides they don;t like someone else’s art car all they gota do is complain a bunch of times, and the art car is finishes. And we were nowhere near as loud as Dancetronauts, 4 speakers, 2 subwoofers, and all running on a 2000 watt honda generator the size of a lunchbox, and somehow we get a complaint?
Kudos in regards of your participation in the burns, and, in regards of the mutant vehicle of you, and of your mates. Might your mutant vehicle be in double secret probation, in the manner of the Dancetronauts, of what the DMV states is CONDITIONALLY approved?
In addendum, most burners are not of the knowledge of ‘how expensive it is … to try to bring large scale art, art car, or camp to the playa’, in due of most burners are newbies, or near newbies, solely 28 per cent are of more than 2 prior burns, and it is years prior of burners being of the realization of $0 of their $390 ticket is paid towards mutant vehicles, and of they owe the owners of the mutant vehicles much Gratitude for their gifts.
The real question is: How many warnings should people get before action is taken? If the Dancetronauts are apologizing for their behavior, why not man up and accept the punishment for your own self-admitted mistakes?
It’s not fair for any group to ruin the experience for others who put just as much time and money into it. This brand of egotism is par for the course among Vegas people, so this isn’t surprising. You’re proving the naysayers right by saying “we’re so popular, we brought Skrillex and Diplo and blah-blah-blah.” Stop name-dropping long enough to examine your behavior and the reasons you’re being banned! Saying “I’m sorry” doesn’t un-ruin somebody’s burn.
My advice for Dancetronauts and Las Vegans in general is: stop trying to upstage the main act, literally and figuratively. You aren’t the spayshul sneauxflake your mommy said you were. And lay off the crystal meth. There’s no conspiracy here.
They are sorry and owning everthing and accepting the punishments, By the way they aren’t from Vegas.
You cite this as is a great example of the disconnect between reality and chronic rhetoric. Dancetronauts, the BOrg, people running for President – they all ask to be judged by what they say, or say they will do, than what they actually do.
Bringing Skrillex and Diplo to Burning Man should be good for another year’s ban shouldn’t it? That’s pretty much the epitome of mainstream EDM music.
You had me by the 2nd page, by the 10th I just wanted to see the outline. 😉 As a fellow practitioner of the forensic arts I totally appreciate the fact that you took the time to pre-rebut any theoretically possible flame comment in your original text.
Believe in yourself.
Anyway, I was going to state an opinion, but the level of activity on this post would just drown it out in a statistically significant (and satisfyingly ironic) way… and I think that’s fucking great… the *airquotes* people *airquotes* have actually spoken.
What does it hurt to say oops, it won’t set a bad example, nobody here is the pope. If anything the discussion spawned set a good one. If you feel spiritually impacted on the playa, believe in yourself enough to go speak to the offender in context. Let us not give in to passive-agression.
I’ll play along Steve, it is my day off and all. 🙂
“the Fun Police at BMHQ have banned Dancetronauts from Burning Man and related events for at least a year. Why? For being “too loud”, and because one of their lineup of scores of DJs got on the mic and tried to gift the crowd his music.”
Where do you see this occuring? Did Trav & Phil from Dancetronauts not give you every email exchange with the DMV they have had between Sept 2014 & Now? If so, then yes, your article is at best misleading and extremely one-sided and you have every right to stick up for them as the true victims of a sinister plot to destroy the good name of Dancetronauts and kick them off the playa. OR – you chose to omit parts of the back and fourth dialogue to create a narrative which grabs attention for the headline and reinforces your “Love of Burning Man.” You can love the event and hate the leadership/founders/board – but you can’t ignore personal responsibility. Point being the DMV has rules, rules which every licensed Mutant Vehicle must sign off on before they are given approval to operate inside BRC during the event. Back to the point though – taken from the emails that were shared with me:
“This combination of infractions and your inability to provide a satisfactory response and resolution leave us no option but to deny a license to the Dancetronauts mutant vehicle for 2015. You are welcome to apply next year for 2016.”
Is that a ban? Does that say ban? Looks like they denied them a license for 2015 and will review that decision again after they take a year off as an art car. No mention whatsoever of Regionals that I could see. Is there something which infers this, or a jump to conclusions?
Can you publish the entire e-mail chain or would you like me to leave it in the comments? If you really feel that you do not have ALL of the DMV responses and the Dancetronauts dialogue, it was provided to me by Capt Trav. I hope it would not be in breach of his trust to share these emails, but I certainly hope it would shed light on the bias of this article in terms of Immediacy as well as transparency.
You may also find the actual DMV policies here – http://burningman.org/event/art-performance/mutant-vehicles/
I like how you posted the emails from the Dancetronauts without posting any of the emails from the DMV, even though it’s obvious that there was a back and forth going on.
I also like how your example of an ipod dock is a $500 mobile DJ boombox soundsystem that puts out 300 watts. Sure, just like I have on my desk at work, or my on my nightstand.
This is great news! Dancetronauts play the worst music on the playa- horrible Las Vegas pool/club electro circa 2010. I’m jumping with joy over not having to hear that garbage this year!
I would say it was more electrotrash than club electro. It’s much harder. What did you think of the music this year. I found it lackluster. At least in 2013 there were other really hard ravey music camps/art cars besides dancetronauts. But this year there weren’t really any. I heard a lot of bad tribally deep house (and I love deep house), a little bit of interesting electro/dubby/trap, some decent tech from Distrikt, and a good amount of uninteresting tech/minimal (and I love dark minimal techno). What is going on with the DJ culture at Burning Man? Where is the quality? I like the dance scene better at Burning Man than EDM concerts because of the people and because there’s a real feel of a wild desert rave. Completely released and free. You can’t get that at Electric Daisy crap. But you need good DJ’s who can really feel out the crowd; electro shamans. Where did all the ravers go?
But was there Tango music?!!!
Lets see here, they were warned, they did nothing, they are now facing the consequences and complaining? Why did this require a 10000-word post riddled with factual errors? Dancetronauts don’t get to spend a week waving their dicks around from their art car? Oh well
Sounds like you had a hard time getting your GF away from Dancetronauts last year. Don’t blame them, man. Blame your betacuck self.
Dancetranauts suck ass and are a commercial business. During the burn the douchbag on the microphone was yelling “I want yall to go out and buy my new album. ” burners.me missed the mark on this article by a long shot. Goo riddens.
To forgive is the burner way. yes they made a mistake and they apologized for it. They know they were in the wrong and owned up to it. It is up to us the Burner community to forgive and forward in positive way. The Dancetronauts are a big part of BM.
“The Dancetronauts are a big part of BM.”
While I agree that those in the Bro-step loving Douchebag community will miss Dancetranauts in 2015, the good news is that there are many other camps where they can fist-bump with their fellow bro’s while listening to shitty ass over-based Dub shit.
I like dancetronauts and I’m not a bro in anyway shape or form. I like hard techno, sub, bass, etc. There was little to none of that at Burning Man this year. I didn’t hear any brostep from dancetronauts in 2013 by the way (didn’t go in 2014). It was pretty much all electro-trash https://soundcloud.com/raversar/dizelkraft-russians-original-1 . For me if I’m at burning man, sometimes at night I want to embody the element of fire and rave out to really hard music in the desert like a wild beast; release that archetypal anger/rage/excitement through dance. I’m not gonna be able to do that with some light easy-listening techno or house. I need a lot of bass and acid sounds. I know not everyone wants to go there emotionally but there should be some outlet for it. And there was definitely no fist pumping action over here. I was dancing my heart out like a wild animal baptized by my own sweat from head to toe.
What! This is going too far, this art car is a special part of the playa and it should remain so!
That is all.
Brought to you by the National Foundation for the Deaf.
Turn down the sound….
Rules…just too many rules…I can’t keep up with them all. I can’t be myself at Burning Man anymore because I’m too worried about breaking some ridiculous rule or “offending” someone. I started going there in ’98 so I COULD be myself. 🙁
Dancetronauts were consistently assholes. I hope to never see them again on the Playa.
What’s wrong, Robyn, did they not have mixers at the bar?
Lol radical inclusion! What about all of the registered sex offenders? You hoping to see them? The gunpoint rapists?
We know it is your blog to do with what you like. But really, is that the sort of comment you want to represent you?
are registered sex offenders the kind of Burners you want at your event to represent you?
Lame, tabloid journalist response from you. This talentless site will never change.
Why is it always the chicks who use ‘y’ in place of ‘i’…
Chicks. Go figure.
lol classic. So what DO you want to see here, Robyn?
Anything of substance would be a welcome change. But tabloid news sells copies and generates clicks, so you just keep on doing that.
I’d like you to know, Robyn, that every time you’ve ever spoken the words, “It’s Robyn with a Y – everyone, including women, wanted to smack you.
Here’s the same issue, but the author isn’t driven by ego:
Yes, the group-think has decided that you should self-censor. Do NOT radically include yourself and your ideas. Make the group feel better.
Last year on the day the gates opened, there was a swarm of cops at center camp to arrest a registered and wanted child sex offender. They got him out. And I have no problem with that. But it’s super cute (in a really creepy way) that you compare the dancetronauts situation with sex offenders. So inflammatory and sillacious and totally helps your argument and is another reason to respect how you speak with others in the community in defense of your bitchy rants. Argued truly like a spoiled little rich bitch. But no! You leave in a CHEAP RV at burning man- that makes you more like “us.” You ARE our Murdoch. Fuck you
How could he register at Burning Man if he was wanted? Doesn’t make sense. The cops would just arrest him when he checked in.
Are sex offenders banned at Burning Man or something? Burnersxxx, your line of questioning here is weird. While nobody in their right mind is all that comfortable with the thought of camping with a sex offender, or just knowing they’re on the playa somewhere, I don’t think it’s the BMORG’s place to police that, nor is it anyone’s place if that sex offender has already been convicted and served his/her sentence. But mostly, why do you compare that with the Dancetronauts thing? It IS the place of BMORG to police policy directly related to the event. So your comparison is a false one. Also, the way the responses to Robyn quickly degenerated to sexist taunts is pretty pathetic.
No they are not banned. They just register with the cops when they arrive.
JV, Child sex offenders are banned from being in the proximity of children. If something were to happen on the playa, responsibility could fall on the entire community and the Borg…so i’m sure they have a back and forth with the PD about those matters.
Who knows how they found him but they did. He could have easily bought a ticket from someone else without his own name attached? I don’t know all of the details.
And Bxxx went all sexist because he’s a bully and needs to start shit to feel alive. I’d like to bully him back more so than I have- but that’s not as affective online and it’s not worth my time. But HAY- I’ll do it this one last time:)..
He likes having these fights and is too privileged to understand how pugnacious he is. Classic NPD. Maybe he has money shoved in all of his holes so he has no perspective? A punch in his asshole face would maybe register with his money soak, uppity, misogynist, self righteous brain.
But I wouldn’t punch him- I’ll leave that up to the next lady he’s a little school boy towards.
I guess there are lessons for us to learn here: when you are wealthy and bored- you become an asshole. Wait…I feel like we may know of this lesson from other default world happenings…
Like All those baking cartels that I’m SURE Bxxx has NO money stashed in- yeah- he’s not helping fuck the world over by his gobs of money in centralized banks. But actually…he most definitely is. These are my facts and they are for my story about him so, that is the truth!
Fuck your burn man! I hope you eat a cap that takes you into yourself, makes you cry like the baby you are inside, and lets you see how much of a dick you are to the community (and the world, you central bank ass-wipe). I’m tired of it. You are a bully and I wish you would leave this community if you are so upset about it.
Ever try Bohemian Grove dude? I bet you’d like it there.
Please point to a single sexist comment I made. Would like to see you threaten to punch me to my face, I wonder if you would be quite so pugnacious yourself if you weren’t hiding behind the Internet. It’s very interesting to see the violent side of this community come out over a DJ on a mic for a few seconds, and to defend a couple of dozen complainers.
so you just lopped the Dancetronauts into a category with sex offenders and rapist.?.
I agree, that particular “inclusion” argument is better left to commodification than amplification. But it does highlight the BOrg hipocracy – come and make sound or money, but only when and where we say, not when you want to, because…. we are in capricious control of the NV burn.
This type of stuff is only going to get worse. It’s a symptom of the gentrification of the event. Ten years ago, the suggestion that something was too loud was laughable. But most attendees are normies now, they saw BM on the Simpsons and thought it would be fun to go. For them, it’s too this and too that, and they complain like they do in the default world, and the little-bit-of-power authoritarians within BMorg are more than happy to put the clamps down in the best interest of the public – which is now mostly a bunch of people I wouldn’t cross the street to have one of them lick my ass. “Please can I lick your ass, Tinker?! Please come over here and I’ll lick your ass for free…”
I remember when they banned dogs, and I was talking to a buddy about it and I suggested it was a good idea. He then proceeded to wake my stupid ass up about what was actually going on.
Marge Simpson requests that we turn the music down, so she can enjoy her acid trip and reconnect with her husband sexually for the first time in 20 years…
10 years ago the stuff wasn’t as loud. And the sound camps had already been banished to the ends of the city because they became too loud.
“Ten years ago, the suggestion that something was too loud was laughable. But most attendees are normies now, they saw BM on the Simpsons and thought it would be fun to go.”
I guess you must be one of those Noobie “normies” who saw BM on the Simpsons then. Sound was an issue 15 years ago as well, as a 16 year Burner, I’ll never forget the issue we had in Camp Bayou in 2001 with some assholes cranking up their shitting sound system at 4am with ZERO people dancing around 7:30 and C.
The large scale sound camps have been placed at 2 and 10 for twenty years now for a reason. And this was indeed in the “best interest of the public”
Dogs were banned a dozen years ago because THEY WERE DYING ON THE PLAYA. Sorry if you’re not aware of this, you must be one one of those “normies” who discovered Burning Man on the Simpsons.
If you were to actually read and disclose the FULL email chain between DMV & the Dancetronauts, you would notice that the Dancetronauts were put on DMV Probationary status due to excessive NOISE Complaints both within the city and near art installation perimeters for 2013. They were told of this probationary status for 2014. People still chose to complain about Dancetronauts in 2014 for whatever reasons, which was a violation of the probationary status of their DMV license. It sucks, absolutely. I’m going to miss Dancetronauts this year, their lack of presence will leave a void on my burn. That said, you have taken yet another issue and spun it into a giant fake conspiracy for a personal agenda against the BORG. A rule was enforced, multiple chances were given. People that complained about sound to the DMV were heard. Conflict. Resolution.
And really…. BANNED? How about denied an art car license for 2015 for failure to abide by rules set for the entire community??
Please share this other correspondence you are talking about.
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 9:58 AM, DMV Hotties wrote:
Hello Philip & Trav –
I apologize for the delay in getting back with you as I’ve just recently taken responsibility for DMV following the departure of Wally Bomgaars.
Our continuing concern is that your responses don’t address the core issues raised by DMV and by participants.
The key responses you sent us are:
1. “People have a choice to move away from a loud vehicle…”
In terms of the Man Burn, this is not a reasonable answer. Participants who have selected a spot to watch the burn cannot be expected to change locations in the middle of a packed crowd when a loud mutant vehicle parks behind them. Nor is it reasonable to expect them to do so.
2. “Dancetronauts bring famous DJs to the Playa…”
This has no bearing on the issues of music volume or civic responsibility.
3. “We have a safety team…”
Again, this has no bearing on the issues of music volume of civic responsibility.
4. “Other vehicles are loud…”
That other vehicles may have issues does not excuse yours from having to follow the rules that all mutant vehicles are required to abide by. The DMV is having discussions with all other vehicles that we received complaints about.
It’s important for you to understand that the complaints about your sound levels on Burn night are serious and include complaints from two Burning Man founders, several members of the DMV Council, other Burning Man staff and the DMV Manager (Wally Bomgaars) personally. It did drown out music from other nearby mutant vehicles.
5. “Lots of people like us…”
Again, this has no bearing on the issues of music volume of civic responsibility.
6. “We followed all the rules…”
No, you didn’t, Your vehicle clearly violated the Mutant Vehicle Sound Policy. The concerns we need you to address relate to the Mutant Vehicle Sound Policy and to civic responsibility.
As noted in the MV policy:
“Keep in mind that if we continue to have the level of complaints and issues that we have been having for the past few years, we may have to take greater steps to limit large sound on vehicles. Please consider your impact on the community and help us all keep sound on MVs a positive experience.”
The DancetronautS mutant vehicle was issued a conditional license for 2014 based on sound policy violations from 2013.
Following the 2014 event, as previously mentioned, we received more sound complaints about the Dancetronauts mutant vehicle than any other vehicle in the history of the event. Despite multiple requests, you have not provided a satisfactory response to these complaints nor provided a plan to address them for 2015.
Additionally, in 2014, we were notified Dancetronauts were offering among other things, Early Entry passes and access to their mutant vehicles as a perks as part of your Indiegogo fundraiser. Early Entry passes were created specifically to allow artists, theme camp organizers and mutant vehicles owners early access to the event site to prepare for the event. It was a violation of the Early Entry pass policy to offer them as a perk.
This combination of infractions and your inability to provide a satisfactory response and resolution leave us no option but to deny a license to the Dancetronauts mutant vehicle for 2015. You are welcome to apply next year for 2016.
Terry Schoop and the DMV Council
I dearly love the subjective “complaints from two Burning Man founders” amid the objective invocations that “This has no bearing on the issues of music volume or civic responsibility.” It clearly denotes the privileged royal status of the two Burning Man founders distinct from the peasant burners.
Certainly would be nice to see some SPL readings – something anyone could objectively measure, instead of trotting out “two Burning Man founders” to ask if it’s too loud. (Do they rent themselves out? What is the rate? Is there a NIST-tracable calibration charge?)
…Of course I am sure this whole affair, and banning from the unrelated Regionals, has absolutely nothing to do with blasting First Camp in 2013. That would be bizarre behavior only explained by NPD.
New drinking game. Anytime Nomad brings up NPD in any random situation we all take a shot. I’m going to have to head to the bank before the liquor store.
“Random situation” lol. Of course this decision was made neutrally, objectively, fairly… That’s why all of the BMORg supporters are sharing their evidence of SPL levels, cautions, working to resolve problems, and so on.
New reformulated Burners.me! Now with added NDP!!!!
Yes I saw this email.
“If you were to actually read and disclose the FULL email chain between DMV & the Dancetronauts, you would notice that the Dancetronauts were put on DMV Probationary status due to excessive NOISE Complaints both within the city and near art installation perimeters for 2013.”
…that isn’t in this email. So where are you getting it from?
“On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 4:41 PM, DMV Hotties:
It is also important to note that your vehicle was CONDITIONALLY invited for 2014 due to sound level complaints in 2013. This means this is the second year in a row that participants have had issues with the sound levels of your vehicle.”
(Earliest mention of topic from the email chain.)
I suggest requesting earlier corespondence from Dancetronauts regarding this issue. Travis was nice enough to send this to me earlier today in an attempt to demonstrate his own transparency and resolve the issue. I feel your perspective on the article (as you have addressed) is one of bias. Your writing style here suggests wronged victims who lost a fight against a bully conglomerate involved in a giant injustice. You fail to recognize the year round volunteer crew which donates their time to the Department of Mutant Vehicles and the processes they have decided to create over many years to make moving works of art approved for playa use. I think it is very safe to assume (yes, I’ll make an ass out of u and me) that the BORG may have had no part whatsoever in this decision other than the two original complaints in regards to noise. And that’s not to put the blame firmly on the DMV volunteers but rather to recognize that perhaps fingers are being pointed at the wrong individuals entirely. Did Dancetronauts, the Strip Ship, and the Bass Station, break rules set out by the DMV that they agreed to in order to be a licensed Mutant Vehicle?
“I am humbly asking if you will please take this apology and understanding letter from me into account and please grant us the ability to bring our art vehicle to the most important event in our lives. We live and breath Burning Man and have been positive participants for over a decade please allow us to continue to grow and be a part!
We are only human, mistakes are inevitable, its what we do to correct them that matters. Let us show you this year please allow us to attend with our car we have so much invested in.”
Again, I love and respect the Dancetronauts Crew and what they do, however I do believe that if you have to repeatedly ask someone to do something for the sake of the community and the event and they fail to abide by it, consequences are a result. While not everyone is happy with this decision (I think it’s unfortunate), I feel that asking the crew to take a break for a year as a mutant vehicle is a more than harsh enough punishment. I hope they hold other art cars and even sound camps to this standard as well. If things are to be as transparent as possible, for the sake of reaching the “Truth” in Burner World, then let’s approach it with all the facts rather than claiming an evil conspiracy.
No other art car will be punished like this. The email you shared does not contain the information you originally claimed: you are making up your own claims. If Dancetronauts shared an email with you that backs up your claims, please share it with the rest of us.
I am not describing this as an “evil conspiracy”, I am stating (I thought quite clearly) that BMOrg did not follow their own Mutant Vehicle Sound Policy, and raising the question of how Art Cars and camps can be banned for Ten Principles violations, when Larry & Co tell us that the principles aren’t rules.
“BANNED? How about denied an art car license for 2015 for failure to abide by rules set for the entire community??”
And under what auspices does the NV burn DMV ban …er… proscribe a vehicle from a Regional burn? Is all this written down somewhere?
Where do you see anything that BANS them from a Regional Burn? I must have missed that in this article.
I have an email telling them they can’t attend SF Decom because they are “not in good standing”. Would have to go through my notes for the rest: do you have any information that they’re still welcome at Regionals?
Is SF Decom the same as every other regional burn? Do you have any information that tells them they are no longer welcome at ANY regional burn?
Like I said. I would have to check my notes. Can’t do that right now. If you have different information please share, there’s no need to play games.
Judging by the information presented here – and not to harm the EMV or Utah’s Element 11 team, but I see no mention of being in good standing with BRC’s DMV in regards to a vehicle.
SF Decom is not the same as every other regional burn. It’s the only one organized by BMORG.
They own the trademarks to all Decompressions. And – I think – Precompressions.
They were not denied a licensed, Before they had a chance to they were told that they are banned for a year.
Ommm…. he used the B-word! 😉
They were not denied a licensed, Before they had a chance to they were told that they are banned for a year.
Let them come ford gods sake – WE LOVE THEM – and right – we are all humans and make mistakes. the question is how we handle them for the future and let them make us improve. and such a sincere apology should be accepted. dont ruin the spirit of commited burner communitues by overbureaucratic reglementations!
And a lot of burners don’t LOVE them or most of the other ‘big sound’ camps & MVs. Nor do we like how the burn has been overrun by ravers who think loud EDM is the be all & do all of the burn. So their MV license has been pulled. Maybe placement & EA passes too- camps have had that pulled for less than advertising EA passes for sale as a fundraiser perk.
Oh, wait the Dancetronauts didn’t do that, it was someone they hired to do their fundraising. Just like it was one (or two, or…) DJs that were plugging their CDs.
Civic responsibility is one of the principles too, tin or ten, and one I try to live by on or off playa.
Banning Dancetronauts will not in any way reduce the number of ravers attending the world’s largest rave.
BM = 70K, not all ravers. EDC 250K ALL RAVERS.
What do you think is the split Pooh? 65000 burners like to party, and 5000 hate it?
I do not listen to EDM in the default world. I like real music. But I have tons of fun dancing with my friends on Playa. I don’t have a problem with Danctranots, but they weren’t behind me during the Man Burn last year (granted the man burn went on for longer than usual and some folks may have had trouble holding their powder). You said Burning man is the biggest RAVE in the world and it is not even close. Even if everyone who goes likes EDM, it isn’t the largest RAVE in the world. It’s an arts festival with lots of EDM. EDM is not the purpose of the event, like it is at EDC.
please provide details of the size of these other raves you’re alluding to. Not population, acres. Not customers, musical stages. By either of these counts there is nothing close to Burning Man. I will grant you that some raves have higher attendance, and some rake in more ticket revenues. But very, very few.
So by large you mean square footage? Hahahahaha. Okie dokie. Sure that’s what you meant. So Let’s see, a grown human takes up about three square feet lets say. So if everyone at Burning Man is raving at once (which never happens), that would be 4.82 acres. If everyone at EDC is raving at once (134,000 each night), which happens all the time, means if you meant square footage, which you didn’t but let’s say you did, that would be 9.22 acres. So EDC is larger in attendance and almost twice as large with regard to square footage. At any given time a very small percentage of the acreage at BM is devoted to EDM. I’ve got nothing against EDM. I’ve got nothing against raves. I’ve got nothing against Dancetronauts. That being said, Burning Man is not a rave. It never has been a rave. The purpose of Burning Man is not to have a rave. Just like the purpose of Burning Man is not to reenact Mad Max, and yet it happens nightly. If EDM went away, EDC would have no reason to exist, but Burning man would just role with it.
Burning man is 1000 acres
Okay Mr Numbers. What percentage of that acreage is devoted to raves and how does that compare to EDC?
BTW, prior to every other person on the planet realizing they could make fake music on their computer and call themselves musicians…we partied…like ROCK STARS!!!
Burning scam. A playground for the rich and shameless at this point. I can’t wait to see how many actual interesting acts will eventually disappear and turn it into sad reminder of its former glory. Gentrification of burning man! Yey.. now all the yuppies and trust fund babies can really take over… as if that wasn’t the case already, but at least now there are some with talent. The price, the regulations and the people who now show up for all the wrong reasons from all over the globe. Over in the EU, this is nothing more than a glorified rave at this point and all the crackheads can’t wait to get their tix. Anyway, I’ve always said that it’s all about small, intimate events. They allow for actual contact with fellow human beings and don’t leave room for ego stroking asswipes. RAVE ON!
Looks like to me they took ownership of the mistakes they made. But to Ban them over this is such BS!! Like them or hate them, they are a big part of BM. they make alot of peoples burns. I have been going to BM for the past 6 years, and I have never had a problem with this Art Car or any members from it.
Ps this year is going to Suck!! my whole camp is going to be so bummed out.
This is such BullShit! Where were the noise police 2 years ago when some ahole camp out at 9:30 and F on the Monday after the burn had music so loud my organs were vibrating. It went from 9pm Monday night to 5am Tues. Morn. No one was there “enjoying” the music. Made me thing Burning Man turned it on and up to try and clear people out. Real smart. Lets sleep deprive people with insanely loud music and put them out on the road late at night to get rid of them.
“BMOrg, Larry & Co, McLarry, DMV Council, BMHQ, BMPBOD, whatever group it is…”
You have hit on one of the problems. The decision-making is opaque, as well as explicitly disenfranchising to the burners. Information is power, and it must be conserved as much as possible.
Yep, they’re all chiefs, until the shit hits the fan, and then you couldn’t find a chief to save your life.
I do not really care. BM and State of Nevada has priced me out so it is doubtful I will ever return to BM. I am sticking to the regionals.
But you won’t find Dancetronauts at any Regionals because the BOrg has decided that they need more control over all their followers, including those that are slipping through their fingers.
I think that BMORG must also be afraid of loud 2-part art cars after the tragic accident last year. The design of their car, even with their positive safety record has to play in this decision at least in part.
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It seems like every year we have been camped within 100 yards of the Dancetranaut’s home base. They always smile and say hi and were never loud or rude in town, that’s for sure. Stand up peeps who bring a sexy spectacle to the burn for everyone to enjoy.
This is a SERIOUS SERIOUS shame…. One of my fondest memories of all time was dancing for what seemed like hours right in front of the Dancetronauts speakers. They can’t be THAT loud if I was able to stand 5 feet away from them… I have also been in the fire conclave for multiple years and we LOVE the power and energy the loud art cars bring. It adds to the experience. I wish they could have a petition to keep them. This is going to make a lot of burners very sad this year. SCREW YOU DMV. SCREW YOU BMORG.
“SCREW YOU BMORG.”
Ironically enough, that they exercise control over the happiness in your life is quite gratifying to them. 😉
Presumably you think drunkenness brings credibility. We have already addressed this with you in previous posts. Yes, even the town drunk is welcome at Burners.me. Not burning man, of course. Radical NPD Lameness there trumps Radical Inclusion etc
Let’s not lose our sense of humor sir.
Yes. Please normalize your response so Pooh can feel comfortable. He is a group thinker, and you are making him nervous.
Glad to see that you have learned to spot NPD behavior!
I’m learning from the masterz!
How to tell if your theory is bullshit…if you find yourself applying it to any situation regardless of the facts, it’s bullshit.
I am trying to figure out if you are just that dumb, or that uncomfortable outside of your group-think. Why don’t you and JV get together, form a consensus, and get back to us. No independent thoughts – you run the risk of not getting paid and losing your house.
Drink!!! Okay, this is getting dangerous. Nomad has more capacity for delusion than I have for alcohol.
And I thought it was implied “the cool-aide” followed “Brink!…”
Ooh, my ears were “burning.” Get it. Because this is about burning man. Pooh, I don’t know what to think about this topic because you and I haven’t discussed it so we could come up with consensus statement. I need other people to tell me what to think, according to Nomad, who can’t abide people coming to a different conclusion than he, so must discount such dissenters as either having a mental disorder or simply the product of group-think duping.
As for Dancetronauts, I have no opinion. Seems like they were warned in 2013, didn’t do anything to address that in 2014 and in fact, they doubled down and went bigger and louder (and more importantly, bullied whatever space they were at by overpowering whatever was going on at the time). So they got banned for a year. Boo hoo. It’s a balance. Robot Heart seems to be able to bring the dance party big time while still being cognizant of their surroundings. Same with plenty of other sound cars. I’m all for the BMORG having the authority to oversee issues like this, because at this point, Burning Main isn’t and can’t be a 100% free-for-all and still exist with as many people going. This doesn’t make my some group-think sheep, it means I realize the need for some kind of authority at a major event like BM. And it’s not an EDM event. There are other non-musical things going on.
At this point Nomad only exists for my entertainment. He’s bailed on the event and spends his days thinking of bizarre ways to apply his absurd theory. Not the voice of authority.
I don’t know if they deserve this punishment, but it sounds like if dancetronauts were a person, they would most likely get kicked off the strip ship for being obnoxious. just saying’..
Bring Dancetronaughts back! This is lame – stop power tripping and correct this mistake!
I can’t figure out how to edit my previous comment, so I’ll briefly write a new one to amend my pointed accusations of the leadership. I read some more things. As is often the case: it’s more complicated.
The allegations of commodification are very serious. Burners go to great lengths to honor our collective exasperation with the overcommercialization of the default world, and the evasive sensations of human-on-human suspicion that come with it. Everyone’s always trying to sell you something. As dreamers and creators, we’re enamored by the principle of providing just for the sake of providing, there in the moment, with all of our hearts, and with no expectation for anything in return. It channels a part of our authentic selves that we all too rarely experience in the default world. Violators of the Decommodification Principle should be held fully accountable.
With that, your article is wildly deceptive and misleading. You’ve written over 4,000 words, and yet, less than 50 of them are about the allegations of commodification. You do mention, in passing, that 25 of the 32 formal complaints, almost 80%, were about the DJ’s self-promotion. Still, your article begins with a wildly sensational title and goes on to shining a false spotlight on the issue of ‘loudness.’ I can’t presume why it is that you’ve bet so strongly on TL;DR, but the alleged Decommodification Violations are not in fact the afterthought you’ve projected them to be. They should be the #1 concern on your list.
You do, in those 50 words, emphasize over and over that the DJ was giving his music away from free, but, well, I urge you to channel that squirmy sensation you feel after looking that sweet grocery store lady in the eyes when you grab that delicious sample of salsa dip that you have absolutely no intention of actually buying.
I don’t know whether the Dancestronauts should be banned for their indiscretions, but upon closer look, it’s clear that the decision has little to do with the massive heaping of bullshit you’ve posted on your blog. Shut the fuck up.
TL;DR: Don’t trust this blog.
You may be right that “commodification” (a Ten Principles violation) was the real reason for the ban. However, this was not stated to the Dancetronauts by BMOrg. Don’t you think they should have mentioned it, if that was indeed a factor?
I suspect that that particular Tin Principle may have become a third rail these days, though the reprimand email quoted here suggests that justification. Would be interesting to see how malleable proscribing “Early Entry Passes as funding perks” may be enforced.
it does seem like commodification is being ignored here. The dancetronauts have repeatedly hung up advertising to their website at burning man and local regional events (http://www.dancetronauts.com)
Every section on the website has “selling features” for their production company. Click the who we are section for the detailed fact sheet on the dancetronauts stage and production being the best production to hire for an event.
also clear in the “hire us” page
The website by itself is fine. Artists who play at burning man should of course be hired for their work elsewhere, and art installations should get hired for other places as well.
To use an art installation as a banner for this marketing, and largely displaying a marketing link on the art at burning man and other local regional events seems like it’s crossing a line into advertising for a service.
It won’t be the same without them there, period, and not in a good way. They provide a diversity of music out on playa. Progressive house never sounded as good as on their art car. For lack of care to make a better argument, this just pain sucks.
I got a little hot by the fire at the burn – maybe they shouldn’t burn things anymore either –
I was they are in the night of 2014. I was all the way in the front and ecstatic to be dancing in front of the Dancetronouts car. The music was amazing and perfectly right. I don’t remember it being too loud at all. I will never forget this memorable time. The Dancetronouts need to be back this 2015!!!! They do not deserve to be punished this way!!!!!!
From reading the 8 pages of comments on the Eplaya, there appear to be a lot of people who have strong opinions about their sound and behavior: https://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=71856
…and…your point is…? There are people on ePlaya.burningman.com with strong opinions?
My fire troupe was performing at the 7:30 slot last year and we could hear the sound cars from all around the perimeter from our spot, not just the Dancetronauts. We dance to 8-counts during the fire show because there is such a conglomeration of beats. Having brought a fire troupe to burning man for the last 4 years and hopefully again this year my hope is that the BORG will reconsider the ban and allow for a modified truce. Going after the artists that bring the vibe to the man will kill it faster then anything!
It might be time to have the conversation about creating larger regional events that happen at the same time as burning man! Decentralize the power base and get back to smaller more “real” events. People around here are calling them “Mega Regional’s and would have 3-5 regions combined on a playa instead of solo regional’s. I think it would also give more burners the ability to go to a burn and be hands on again. Inventing the next generation of burns and Burners.
Peace, Spark from Flameology!
Thanks Spark. A genuine Burner response. Flame on!
I’ve been to something like 10 regional burns, mostly in the Midwest, and have worn a lot of hats over the years @ InterFuse. We’ve had to deal with sound restrictions always, and last year I had to turn my sound off, even though it was only one camp causing noise complaints (most likely, poor placement IMO.) Police intervention on sound aside, I’ve noticed a trend that the new comers, complain about things more often than veterans. It seems like there are a lot of late middle aged and other people showing up in the scene all over who have maybe gone to BRC and been bedazzled by the Spectacle and are trying to recreate the image of that in spaces where they’re camped a lot closer to a large sound system than they would have on the playa, and suddenly this is a problem. The new tamer burningman has lost touch with it’s roots, everyone knows “Plur” and “Fuck yer day” but whatever happened “TAZ?”
The point, is “Being a Burner” is now mainstream. Which is good for the mainstream but bad for the “burner.” It is a national phenomenon, my home state of OK is having it’s first regional and it’s been requested that I bring a sound camp but I’m sitting it out because I feel like the ticket price puts it out of line with my ideals. $60 compared to $15 for the first Kansas, and $25 for Arkansas cherry popper last summer, even the largest nearby regional “Interfuse” in which has over 1k attendees and has been going strong for over a decade was only $40 this year. Supposed reason why there’s extra cost? Fireworks. IMO the worst thing about burningman, is waiting for those fucking fireworks to end.
My admittedly new burn event threshold is no sold-out ticketing. I miss the freelance nature of deciding to go at the last minute, or getting someone to join you. Having ticketing throttle attendance adds a color that the NV burn never had for me when I was going. I suppose spontaneity is what I love about Night Market and Figment.
I don’t agree with banning them (would just give them a warning that if the same thing or anything like it happens in the future, they’ll be permanently banned and leave it at that), but the idea that there was ‘old Burning Man’ where music was allowed wherever and at whatever volume you wanted and ‘New Burning Man’ is not really true.
At best, what you can say is there’s the actual old-time Burning Man, where electronic music wasn’t much of a factor at all and where Dancetronauts (or any other art car playing music at those volumes) probably would have gotten lynched on the spot, then the middle years where the event changed in the mid-90s, a lot of old-school Burners stopped going, and a lot of rave-style sound camps were born, and now the latter years where there are even more rave-style sound camps.
I think a line can be drawn between 1996 (Bm going for 10 years, 6 people take it over as “founders” and owners) and the rest. Another line can be drawn after the 2008 burn, which seems to have been the start of this “transition to a non profit” which has devastated our culture.
2011 the year ticket demand exceeded supply. Radical inclusion unofficially, and in reality, died.
That is a (the?) big turning point. It set the stage for radical profiteering.
If it is the NV burn 2.0, or coming late to the jumped shark, being a profiteer is not as bad as needing the sellout for you to “find” a counter-culture experience. I am perfectly happy moving on and leaving behind the public farce of this private party.
Dr Yes, kudos in regards of your site.
You are stating their desired rubbish CoolAid, of there was one Burning Man prior of 1997, and a different Burning Man after 1997. My belief is the most awesome Burning Man was 2007, of two man burns, and of the awesome oil derrick explosion, and of fire near to everywhere. With the transition towards the non profit, and towards numerous rules, and of top down control of the bureaucracy, replacing numerous awesome volunteers whom laboured for the community by employees whom labour solely for the BMOrg, and, at present, Concierge Camps, OSS, and the Burner community booted from the playa in favour of the near to 30,000 newbies desired by the BMOrg each burn, this is the new Burning Man(TM), much is changed from prior of 2010.
Priorly, the sole principle was ‘No Spectators, Participants Only’, and most made attempts towards participating in the throwing of the awesome crowd sourced party in whatever manner they might desire. At present, most desire to spectate at an awesome festival, and do not desire to participate in the throwing of the awesome party. The new Burning Man(TM) is an awesome festival, but, is much changed from the Burning Man of 2005 to 2010, the shark has been jumped.
In addendum, Dr Yes, you have priorly stated of Burning Man gained big per cents of people within the early years, what might be the difference, at present in regards of gaining big per cents of people? The difference is in regards of it was easy peasy of any Burner whom desired to continue to participate in the throwing of the crowd sourced party to do so, at present, it is most difficult to do so. My belief is the BMOrg did an awesome thing by raising the number of directed tickets to 20,000, might they have done so within 2012, and more at present, more of the culture, and the participants, might have remained, but they did not desire to do so.
The BMOrg might have stated of Radical Inclusion, all whom desire to be members of the Burner community might do so, in the manner of the Burner community might radically includes any whom desire to participate in the throwing of the events, or participate in the culture, and tickets will be sold towards them, in the place of radical inclusion is of the meaning of any whom might desire to buy a ticket to an awesome festival thrown by the Burner community. The BMOrg had an awesome opportunity towards building the community, by utilizing the ticket sales, in the place of replacing the community by the ticket sales.
Wow. Seven time Burner here. I’m not a raver or even much of an EDM fan. I’ve got to say though that this is ridiculous. I was at the Burn last year when the Dancetronauts played. They were loud, but that’s the point. So was everyone else. And yeah, the DJ was a complete idiot. Stoned out of his mind. Whatever though… that’s Burning Man.
Banning them though for their infractions is extreme and cuts the heart of the spirit that underlies Burning Man. This is just pettymindedness that has nothing to do with the actual complaints. There are plenty of loud sound cars; Dancetronauts is just one of them – they happen to be the most popular and best dressed.
What I hate about the world I live in is how everything is so damn controlled and Disneyfied. What I love about Burning Man is the freedom to express. But cutting out a group because they’re too good at what they do and trying to control the organic expression of freedom because you want something else, well f*ck, I guess we’re on the road to beer gardens and drum circles.
Just to be clear: I’m really, really pissed about this!!! Let the Dancetronauts play music. Stay away if you don’t like them!
Done. Luckily my financial future does not depend on the continued voluntary contributions of time, effort and material by the people who make the stone soup that I charge for by the bowl. I think the BOrg are a little more worried than me.
My sentiments just exactly.
I’ve gone around 8 times since 1998 or so and have tickets to go again this year. The spectacle of these guys was one of the most head-shakingly cool things on the playa hands down. Laser pointers I can understand being banned. But loud music? At first I thought this was an Onion article.
Radical self-expression sure doesn’t mean what it used to. I don’t see myself going again after this year.
Banned?! Reading this made my queasy. I wonder if there’s a means by which other BRC citizens can kindly ask the DMV to go fuck themselves.
I also wonder about about the particular voices to whom these powerful voices of protest belong. Who is the LA Fire Brigade? And why are their voices be categorically louder than those of another group of burners who also dedicate so much of themselves to the basic principles upon which this whole thing stands. Smells like nepotism, at best, and at worst, the same old hat of default world power and corruption seeping out from underneath the cracked earth of our beloved playa.
Every indication from the Dancetronaut emails (and from having met the seemingly open and receptive folks themselves) is that they’re more than willing to atone for the alleged indiscretions, regardless of “who’s right.” It doesn’t get much more communal than that.
BMOrg. Your community needs you to step up. Fix this now. And then, please, take a few moments to think deeply about the values you’re being entrusted to serve and to consider the frightening prospect of whether you’d be better suited to work for Coachella instead.
>I wonder if there’s a means by which other BRC citizens can kindly ask the DMV to go fuck themselves.
It’s easy. Like I did it – I just stopped bringing my art car out there. Burning Man is a lot easier if you just do it like everyone else does – sit at Center Camp and drink vodka from a paper cup and fuck teen girls in the portapotties. I’ve saved about 20k in the last 5 years not bringing out anything.
You’re right. But it doesn’t feel like “everyone’s a winner” with this . Surely there is a win/win/win way forward , that amongst all of us talented Burners we can figure out? One that doesn’t involve “send us for money we really need it because what we do is so hard “?
“You don’t need a weatherman to tell you which way the wind is blowing….”
“to KNOW which way the WIND BLOWS”…If you are going to quote A real musician to defend fake musicians…get the quote right.
No, pay attention, I am here to “sit at Center Camp and drink vodka from a paper cup and fuck teen girls in the portapotties.”
“BMOrg. Your community needs you to step up. Fix this now. And then, please, take a few moments to think deeply about the values you’re being entrusted to serve and to consider the frightening prospect of whether you’d be better suited to work for Coachella instead.”
Nice speech Checkers. Dream on.
Finally at the bottom of the wall of words and I’m still on the fence. I have camped very near the Dancetronauts the last 2 years without complaint, Stood at 6 O’clock last year for the burn without complaint, just amazement at how awesome the arrangement of MV and participants looked. Perhaps I’m missing some detail that would give this topic more gravitas at this point. If I take anything from this, its an idea for a costume covered in microphones on flexi stands with a big LED “f_ck off” sound meter dial on the back. Sadly I will not be there this year to assist with showing you the playa night sky so perhaps someone else can jump on that idea.
Forget dancetronauts. The lights at Root Society (2010) were far too bright. Please make sure that never happens again! I was really annoyed!
I agree. I got permanently blinded at Root Society. My mother is typing this reply. Hopefully BMorg will put an end to the bright lights, too.
Sun too bright… cannot see… more diesel fuel for genset powered lights.
A sad day for Burning Man, especially if they didn’t receive the two complaints mentioned in the rules. I camped next to the Dancetronauts one year and they were amazing neighbors – Super respectful. And every time I’ve ever found them at any event it has led to an amazing time. And I really don’t understand banning them from regionals – shouldn’t that be up to the individual events? This will be BM #11 for me, and I think this is only the second time I’ve really doubted the future of the event.
The “Regionals” apparently serve at the pleasure of the BOrg. That’s why I would consider being a “Regional” one strike against an event. Not only are burners NOT enfranchised in the BOrg decisions, but they are imposing their will on the Regionals where one might have hoped to be enfranchised in decisions.
Hey, there’s loud and there’s LOUD. I like the ever present whomp whomp that is the background noise to Burning Man. But I also like the few remaining cilia I have. Lots of camps do sound right, hell the camp across the street from ours had a party the last night and their dance floor was full and people were having a great time, but it was at the level of background noise in our camp. It’s possible to throw a good party without blasting 100,000 watts.
As to his comment that, if told of the complaint during the man burn by the LA Fire Conclave…seriously? Someone from the conclave is supposed to stop what they are doing, fight their way through the crowd to get out of the inner circle and get the DJs attention and say “hey, turn it down!” . By the time they got to the art car, the conclave would be over and the man burned.
It’s a fair point. But rather than someone from the fire conclave making an effort, it could have been the paid employees of BMOrg who were there, or the members of the DMV council, or the 2 Burning Man “founders” . All these people benefit from Burner dollars. But none of them could be bothered to get off their ass, for something that supposedly was “ruining burning man”? And what about all the happy dancers? They should have just left because their enjoyment of music at the Burn was selfish and inappropriate ?
Anyone from the center circle would have to either climb over a shit ton of people or go to the emergency access point and then fight through the crowd, dodge piles of bikes and MVs and then the crowd around the MV to get to the Dancetronauts. The conclave complaint wouldn’t even be heard until after the performance unless one or more of the dancers stopped their dancing and complained to someone to send it up the chain. There really is no way to have had them approached during the set. So to me that’s a really lame excuse.
And as the email shared by Decibel shows, it wasn’t just the conclave and being loud, but a host of offenses. Maybe they can get creative and offer a different ‘gift’ this year.
Excellent point, Pink. What has been described here seems to be a one-note-samba group who seem to think louder and in your face is creative. My impression is that their “gift” is in fact not interactive, only reactive. The whole rave mentality needs a renaissance, something that will not happen so long as they are satisfied feeding on the unilateral group-think satisfaction.
Someone is always coming up with something new. Wonder if it will be them, or someone else.
yes, because nobody who works for BMOrg has radios.
I’m not sure where I stand on this whole issue yet.
But it does seem like it’s not being considered what it would take for someone to come “from conclave,” or the inner circle, out to an art car to ask them to turn down the music.
If you take past history into account, it could actually jeopardize having a fire conclave at all (which has happened).
Do we all remember the wind? and how the burn doesn’t always start on time? What many people don’t know is that Crimson is waiting for a time when the wind is low enough that there is not a danger to the firespinners, or to the entire crowd when the man burns.
One year they didn’t even get to do fire conclave because the wind was crazy and seemed to only die down shortly enough to burn the man, so they skipped the entire fire conclave and all the fire performers didn’t get to perform that year.
Also once the performance has started, it’s really hard to stop considering how much coordination it takes. So what’s being proposed here is that, as some musicians and fire performers realize they are having trouble hearing cues, AND during the time when there’s a period of low wind for the ceremony, it’s being asked that the performances stop, everyone “resets,” and someone is assigned to fight back through the crowd to find the offending art car, and spend time to convince them that they are a representative of the org, and get them to turn down music.
we’re talking a task that would take at least 20-30 minutes.
You can’t really delay the performance by 30 minutes once it’s started. Can you imagine asking all those fire spinners who have already started around the circle to extinguish their tools? it’s not safe.
And if people were even able to realize right when the performance started that some of the LA performers couldn’t hear their cues because of the music, it still would have meant delaying the entire man burn around a half an hour, which also isn’t that safe when you don’t know if the wind would pick up again and the conclave or burn can even be done later.
I’m not sure how I feel about this whole issue yet, but the casual way it’s been insinuated that someone could easily have come talked to them during the performance (like they were talking about easily walking to the back of a movie theater) has seemed like a really unreasonable argument.
so you think that all Art Cars should be banned from playing music when the Man Burns?
Is that really all that can be taken away from my entire comment?
or that it’s not as simple as written for someone to just come talk to an art car in the middle of the fire conclave performance, or even get to an art car easily from the inner circle?
and of course art cars shouldn’t be banned from playing music during the burn.. but just playing music at the burn isn’t what got them in trouble.
According to most of what I’m reading they were on probation in 2014 from incidents in 2013… so they were given a chance to fix things.
then they had repeated incidents in 2014 while on probation which seems like more of a reason for asking to not get a DMV license for a year.
Or should people be able to continually repeat getting complaints, warnings, and probations, and then not have it affect their ability to get a license?
…You mean like the BOrg?
Nomad… you mean the borg’s ability to get a license for burning man from nevada?
That’s not even what she was saying. That’s not what anyone who is picking apart the dancetonauts apology and excuses is saying. Non one is saying no music, no DJs, whatever. Self regulation means realizing when you are being a douce or what actions make you one and stoppin/not doing them in the first place. Dancetonauts don’t seem to be very good at self regulating. At that point someone has to step in. It’s unfortunate. I like anarchy. I hate rules. But short of being truly anarchic and say, ‘tampering’with their sound system, what other recourse do we have in the face of douchebaggery?
Just give them a warning. That’s all. Like the policy says. Preferrably at the event.
“what other recourse do we have in the face of douchebaggery?”
Realize that you are in douchebaggery land, and move on. To paraphrase Woody Allen: If you don’t like the members of a club, don’t join.
So the social experiment that is ‘Burning Man’ is experiencing growing pains. Ever since 2011, when the event sold out for the first time, those growing pains have been significant. I would like nothing more than to expand this ‘experiment’ to the default world. In order to do that…it has to work on a large scale and achieve a desired result that betters society. Perhaps BMORG can learn a few lessons from the default world? After all, cities and civilizations have been built for thousands of years. Some successfully, some not. Why not incorporate the things that do work, and have been proven into the growth plan?
As for the inclusion or exclusion of, not just the Dancetronauts, but anyone embracing the spirit of BM…hmmm. Let’s take New York for example. There is Little Italy, China Town and a number of other ‘sections’ within the city. All coexisting as part of a larger populous. There are a few ‘sections’ of BRC as well. The Alternative Energy Zone comes to mind as one. These ‘sub-cities’ allow people to gravitate towards what they are interested in experiencing. Not exclusive at all but a way to handle the growing pains. A model that BM might consider?
Interesting analogy, NYC. Chinatown and Little Italy are “magnet” areas if you will, but are not law. There are Chinese and Italian restaurants outside these areas, but rarely mid-street block in Manhattan, only on avenues. That’s because of the Zoning Resolution and the need for a “residential” space. http://home.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/zone/zonedex.shtml
If you want an analogy, look at the whole picture, don’t pick and ignore. The more dense the population, the more structure needed. Is the BOrg equal to this task? Ha! Silly question.
They are very loud and conclave is not about a Damn party bus… the fire spinners work very hard on their performances and parking so close so as to overshadow all of those performers is pretty rude.
I’m just going to say it, fire conclave is fucking boring. Whenever they do anything everyone has to stop what they’re doing and become their audience. It’s always the same thing EVERY time and they always strut around like they’re some kind of artistes and everyone needs to get out of their way, “Hey guise – it’s time for fire spinning again! And again… and again… oh, look – they’re doing it again. Everyone stop doing what you’re doing, again.”
If they’d just mix it up a bit it would be fine. Like if someone invented fire fingers- oh wait.
My belief is all whom contribute towards the throwing of the party might be shown Gratitude. Might spectators not desire their art, they are of the ability to leave, or move, or converse with their mates. Fire spinners solely gain a low income ticket, purposed towards assisting all of the fire troupe to be at the burn, and art, in the manner of the performance of Alien Siege Machine, might be shown Gratitude, by the mutant vehicles in the manner of lower sound, the BMOrg, and by Burners whom are not of the realization of the performances are a gift, of their art, towards Burners.
The BMOrg might negotiate, within a fair manner, a creative solution in regards of the issue, perchance, in regards of Dancetronauts, Dancetronauts might be permitted solely a smaller number of speakers within 2015. But, negotiating a fair solution is not the manner of the BMOrg, the BMOrg desires their top down control.
ABP, you have to limit based on measured SPL. Limiting wattage or speakers is not a valid approach.
So the playa is too small for a sound truck and fire dancers? Guess what. Fire dancers win. We need a Dancing Man or Music Man event to keep all the sound truck people busy. …Not sure, but Music Man may have been taken.
I think most of the stuff the sound camps play is pretty boring. And the fire conclaves go on for way too long too.
How close is “so close”? 100 feet? 300 feet? Serious question.
On the playa, the sound above about 500 Hz is VERY directional. Distance is not the issue, SPL is. You could be 300 feet on-axis and have a greater SPL than 100 feet off-axis.
How about a Kickstarter campaign to make a sound truck that follows Dancetronauts and overpowers them. Keep it easy in the voice frequency range, and maybe use the other half of the brain. …Maybe Nixon speeches? Make your donations for what you want to hear.
As ironically amusing as your suggestion is, they already went down this road on eplaya
I don’t do eplaya anymore. Don’t like the risk of editing.
Did they come up with the Nixon speeches?
Might Dancetronauts be the mutant vehicle whom was in double secret probation in due of, within 2013, in the middle of the night, traversed by First Camp and a DJ bellowing ‘50,000 watts of power’ and their speakers pointed towards First Camp? My belief it was an awesome prank, in a Cacophony manner, by the DJ arse, whom was banned from the mutant vehicle in due of this, but the BMOrg, and their special visitors, were most pissed in regards of the halting of their sleep.
My belief is a bigger issue is in regards of the quitting of the DMV organizers. Why might it have occurred? What secret decisions, of the BMOrg, might the DMV organizers not be in agreement of? My belief it is in regards of the number of mutant vehicles permitted on the playa will be much less within 2015 in due of the death, within 2014, of the gal whom fell while making attempts to jump onto the trailer of the mutant vehicle, after special guests from First Camp were on the mutant vehicle, it was a most horrible occurrence. Might the BMOrg be hiding the number of mutant vehicles permitted upon the playa within 2015, from the mutant vehicle owners, whom are paying numerous thousands of dollars of cash to bring their gifts to the playa, solely to not be permitted to do so? What might be the number of mutant vehicles permitted within 2015, might the DMV, or any mutant vehicle owner, state towards us the numbers, and of the prior numbers?
My belief is Gratitude might be shown towards Dancetronauts, and towards all mutant vehicle owners, whom bring their gifts to the playa, of which, near to $0 of each $390 ticket, near to $0 of the $30.5 million of ticket sales, is paid towards the mutant vehicle owners.
The punishment does seem excessive. On the other hand, I encourage them to look at this as a novel way to experience the burn: art car free, performance free, and a chance to have people gift THEM for a change. This too shall pass.
I’m reading the eplaya thread about this. It certainly contradicts the article that implied there were only a handful of complainers. MANY people posted bad experiences with Dancetronauts, most of which seemed to be replied to with “We didn’t do that! But if we did, we’re sorry.” I’m just saying the waters seem to be very muddy, and not as black-and-white as the article made it out to be.
Stay tuned. I have my own theories about what happened here, but that’s on me not the Dancetronauts. With this post I have tried to stick to the facts and the rules, rather than any speculation.
Thank you, Burnersxxx, for sticking to the facts. There are a lot of rumors to sift through. My fiance is the driver of the Strip Ship and I saw rumors about him that were no where close to being based on the truth. One girl claimed that we abandoned her in the deep playa on the night of the Embrace party…where we were parked from the afternoon until the next morning. Some people are just ridiculous.
Thanks Anah. I know you won’t promote yourself because Dancetronauts are actually very humble down to earth people, but it is worth mentioning that you and your fiancée support fire performance so much that you organize an annual festival for it in Redding CA.
Give them the boot! I heard them burn night, over and over again saying “Buy my music, it is dropping next week” “I want everyone here to buy my music”
I also heard they blasted music at the temple… They are clueless
I’d like to see your ticket stub from ’14, /sounds like bs to me
I’m not privy to any of the details, but you’re going to have to work harder than this rambling post to convince me that some perfectly nice people are getting banned for a year because of an isolated incident. Even if there was someone with an off-base vendetta against Dancetronuts, there’s no single person with the power to do that.
I’ve witnessed a lot of people being repeated asshats, and heard lots of conversation and handwringing amongst the ‘powers-that-be’ about how to handle it in a way that’s consistent with community values and ideals. There is a tremendous amount of bending over backwards to give people behaving badly the benefit of the doubt, and when doubt is extinguished, another chance, and when another chance is wasted, an alternative opportunity. I’m certain there’s a lot of really fun, engaged and personally responsible people that are part of that group, but part of the problem with sponsoring such an identifiable image as the “Strip Ship” is that when one person in your uniform is being a dick, lots of people will notice and remember. And if the group isn’t internally strong enough to self-adjust and take better care of the energy and the image that’s being projected. When enough incidents of similar character pile up, it’s hard for the group to say “oh, that guy, yeah, we’re sorry about him, but he wasn’t really part of our core group and he’s not coming back next year.” “Oh, you mean that OTHER guy? Yeah, we’re sorry about him, but he wasn’t really part of our core group and he’s not coming back next year. Oh you mean that OTHER OTHER guy?…”
As I said, I’m sure there are plenty of people in that camp who are way better burners than I am, people anyone would love to have in their camp or artcar. But I’m not buying this crybaby act at all.
Excellent points all. Suspending them is an elegant solution. This year each sound MV and dance music theme camp will be thinking about both volume and values.
Lol yeah right. I think it’s more likely they’ll be thinking about Further Future and wondering why they should keep their allegiance to the NV Borg Burn.
You say that as if it were a bad thing. Specialization is evolution. Apologies to the amoeba out there,
Was Further Future any good? From what I can tell, it looked like a very high-end, exclusive EDM festival with the attendees (not participants) being catered to and entertained. Nothing wrong with that scenario at all, but it isn’t any different from any other festival, either. For all it’s faults, Burning Man is still fairly unique. I’m all for the hard-core ravers ditching BM for other, more music-oriented festivals if they feel the need to roam around and “gift” their music at very high volumes irrespective of the situation. I enjoy the chaos and pranksterism, I genuinely thought it was hilarious our neighbors in 2007, for instance, had a very loud dance party at 5am every morning. But this high-end, high-dollar, hire-a-pro flashy EDC type thing just comes off as douchy. And again, dude, they were given a warning the year before. There are, in fact, stipulations written in ink when you receive an MV license. They did, from all accounts, far exceed any other sound car with regards to thoughtless use of a high-decibel system. They regularly promoted their wares on the mic, and you know, the lack of advertising is pretty high on the list of things I appreciate in BRC. And their truck was BARELY decorated. From all accounts, it looked very much like a Ford truck. So they got a pass on that multiple times, for whatever reasons. I know from experience bringing art cars out there, that any car-like feature has to be concealed or they’ll flat out deny you a license. So there’s that, too.
So no, I shall cry no tear for the Dancetronauts.
i agree with the ban.
stop whining and get you shit together.
I agree with the one year ban, as an “ugly” person who was refused a ride by their car, when there was plenty of room.
Their loss, in oh so many ways.
Burning Man Is not a place for peace and quiet. It was started as a rowdy mad max heavy metal smash fest with guns and loud rock and explosions. Take your hippie shantie Buddha meditation relaxation to Shambhala.
Why is compromise never on the table in these discussions? Why is it that anytime anyone complains about excessively loud sound levels, it’s a “My way or no way” sort of reaction?
I think it gets down to “what motivates the ruling group”. It’s clear from our recent poll that nobody thinks Excellence or Entertainment are priorities.
Its a place for art and not being an asshat to fellow artists. Chill out, bromeo.
A very logical and rational response to bureaucratic idiocy. Obviously, someone with power got pissed off and wanted to take out their anger and flex their power. Tragic for all of us. The more I read about Burningman, the more I think that there is more freedom and radical self expression available outside of the event. Anyone is probably less likely to get into trouble running naked, doing drugs, and playing loud music in Las Vegas, than at Burningman. Maybe it’s time we let Burningman die, and invest in local events that seem to more closely embody Burningman principles. Better yet, maybe it’s time to move Burningman outside of the United States.
Erik, I invite to try “running naked, doing drugs, and playing loud music in Las Vegas” and see how that goes for you. Sorry, I don’t accept collect phone calls from jail.
For a closer to post event discussion: 🙂
I’ve met and interacted with many members of the Danctronaut team on several occasions including Phil, Travis and Austin and have nothing but nice things to say about them. I’ve always approached their artcar with caution and respect, making eye contact with one of the perimeter people and have been allowed on board several times and also been denied several times. To outright ban someone without warning for a seemingly minor offense is ludicrous at best. Are we now banning artists whose installations have injured people, theme camps that have moop marks, or burners that have utilized the med tent too much? To allow this to happen stinks of entitlement: One of the people who got their panties in a bunch is most likely good friends with some board members and that’s the only reason this is getting so much leverage. Participate in Radical Inclusion and allow them to return to the playa on a conditional probation. Don’t act like a cranky 6 year old who skinned his knee and is lashing out at anyone who comes too close.
Someone can get killed by an art car, no problem. A DJ gets on the mic? BAN THEM !
If commercial interests were involved with the art car death, I am sure it would have gotten attention. The interests of the burners, per se, even their death, are of no interest to the BOrg.
If I am wrong, please post link(s) to what the BOrg has done about the art car death.
I am not in agreement, it was commented of one of the BMOrg was on the mutant vehicle, and special guests, the most horrible occurrence was of much interest, and much sadness, to the BMOrg. My belief, term it solely speculation, is of there will be a much smaller number of mutant vehicles permitted on the playa within 2015, and of they have not stated towards the awesome mutant vehicle owners of the numbers.
Is your belief based on anything posted or published by the BOrg or Will Chase? What action have they taken that is on par if not exceeding the banning of the people (who blasted Center Camp..?). (See, I have not yet mentioned NPD in this thread. Ooops…)
It is solely speculation, no item is published by the BMOrg, the speculation is solely in due of what might be the rationale of the DMV organizer quitting, conversations with owners of mutant vehicles, and what might be the actions of the bureaucracies in due of the most horrible accident within 2014? My belief is the BMOrg owes transparency upon the numbers to the awesome mutant vehicle owners whom are spending thousands of dollars, on their mutant vehicles, to donate their gifts.
I am surprised that they have not already monetized the value of the vehicles, like they did with the Regional playa art, to inflate the book “contribution” valuation of the NV burn.
Sorry Peeps your wrong. The Dancetronauts are amazing people mostly made up of EMT, Fire, ER Doctors, Acupuncturists, Chiropractic, and Counselors. Can you see these types of people being anywhere close to what you are claiming? They are polite and accommodating and always have been unless you yourself were an asshole to one of them your claims are wrong. As for your other comment, The Dancetronauts pay out of pocket for every show they do. No shows are for profit they do them all for “Free” out of passion for entertainment. Get the facts straight, not one person has ever been “Paid” to perform a show. Burning Man Is not a place for peace and quiet. It was started as a rowdy mad max heavy metal smash fest with guns and loud rock and explosions. Take your hippie shantie Buddha meditation relaxation to Shambhala.
Most commenting here do not understand the difference between non-profit and gifting. But gifting me your sound field when I don’t want it is not a gift; if “gifting” your sound is your perception, you don’t understand it. I need to do a post on the psychology research on gifting, and on the Schadenfreude group-think which seems to be the underlying theme in most comments in this blog.
Group think post “coming soon”
I am having a momentary executive function dysfunction, so I can’t handle group think or conspiracy theories at the moment, but does this dust-up really fall into a category. Random thought, some folks believe there were shooters on the grassy mole. Maybe it is ADHD…
Oh, back to topic, this seems straight forward and rather old-school, if you piss-off “the powers that be,” you get an email notice, or the boss walks in and says “you’re fired.” Yes, I do believe, there is always someone with the authority (power) to do that…
The revocation has little to do with past infractions, warnings, or probation, it’s about the one or more influential people you pissed-off. The decision was made to “punish” after the event. It could be about commodification – hey, they admitted an ignorant DJ spoke out, with good or bad intentions, promoting free downloads of his music, it was ignorant and broke a “guideline.” [Looks stern and *wags finger* -ssh] It happens. However, from reading here, that’s not given as THE reason for Revoking Dancetronauts’ privilege to participate with their impressive toys and dedicated team.
Nothing Dancetronauts could do or say mattered “after the event.” This isn’t about righting a wrong. Punishment is a pure exercise of power, an exhibition of authority: [Stamped: Revoked] “Your ass is canned, try again in 2016.”
Dragging out a dirty laundry list of past infractions, accusations, blog post, whatever, is smoke and mirrors. There never was an option for correction as punishment is the correction. I can imagine the conversation in some BOrg office, John Doe Director says, “Shit-can those guys, now.” What about procedures, or their commitment to BM, or whatever? “They’re already on probation – Revoke them, it will teach all the others ‘artists’ (sound camps) we mean business.” [Yes, this is imaginary, but I would give 10 to 1 odds I am pretty close.]
To other like-minds, I was also thinking this whole dust-up reminds one of Animal House and “double secret-probation,” and now you’ve pissed-off the Dean.
What irritates me is no one is stand-up about it. Oh, but “a DMV committee decided based upon a preponderance of evidence.” (I call bullshit *cough* Drink, the Cool Aide *cough*) Someone, made the decision and it will likely never be public knowledge, why should it… it’s not like the BOrg is Congress, oops wrong analogy. Anyway, just my ten-cent worth on this topic without calling anyone names or telling them to shut up. Now I am out of here *adjusts sunglasses and gas mask* because it’s time to rev-up the diesel gen to test the landing lights on top of my RV. Wave bye to all of the double secret probationers! And this too shall pass.
Awesome comment, MrPerk. I am in agreement of it is a raw exercise of power, in addendum, but I am of the belief of the decision was within 2013. When the arse Dancetronauts DJ pointed the speakers at First Camp, in the middle of the night, and bellowed numerous times of ‘fifty thousand watts of power’, that, perchance, was of when the decision occurred. Dancetronauts was in double secret probation, the BMOrg was solely waiting in regards of the next error. In regards of the 2014 man burn, the BMOrg had radios, and they were of the power to converse with BRC Rangers, or DMV, whom had the power to to require of Dancetronauts to halt their sound, and halt the advert of their CD, but they did not do so. And then, of what burnersxxx did not state, of Further Future, and of Dancetronauts playing other festivals, the BMOrg was most pissed, and desired of their raw exercise of power.
In the manner I priorly stated, my belief is the Project board must gain control in regards of this rubbish, purposed towards the benefit of the Project. Any whom might converse with a Project board member, request of them to vote to require of the BMOrg to send, and publish, their 2014 990 form within June, publish their 2014 consolidated financial statement, and publish the financials of the 2014 event in the manner they require of all the regionals. In addendum, I am of the belief the Project board must vote in regards of a fair contract for the artists, it is most horrible of the BMOrg to provide solely 25 per cent of the cash of the temple, the temple must raise $200,000 or $300,000 to occur, all must donate their cash or labour.
great comment, worth at least 20 cents!
Why does your groups professions keep coming up as a justification for why “you wouldn’t be the type of people” I find that argument erroneous and have seen you use that in your letters with the DMV and now here. Sounds pretentious to me. Also what do you mean exactly that you play every show for free and pay out of pocket? What shows? How about the 5k SD Decompression (an official bm regional event) paid for you to bring your setup? EDC must pay far more than that.
Burning Man™ is getting less and less “free” as it gains in popularity. I think this will be my last year. I’ve felt less of a connection and more of a business model lately. It’s ok. All good things run their courses. It’s just a shame. It doesn’t have to be this way but the powers that be have 0 vision for their own future…
Yeah, I was standing near the assholes advertising their “gift”. Don’t have time to read this massive article defending them. Just because they are narcissist and you buy into that, does not mean that everyone else is getting some “gift”. The gift was a DJ talking about how great they are and where else you could hear them turn on electronic equipment. DJing, the lowest of the gifts.
What was your gift? Just wondering.
I think the gift here is that someone is commenting their experience with dancetronauts and joining the conversation as most media websites (like this one) would like.
As a journalist, and a website owner, why is someone with a valid complaint being ridiculed for posting?
Does someone have to have a resume about what they’ve done at burning man to know that advertising tracks on itunes into the crowd watching the man burn is wrong?
“what was your gift” is not ridicule. It is a genuine question.
However, “I am just going to comment on this post but I can’t be bothered actually reading it”…is ridiculous.
So the implication is that someone has to have their amount of gifting evaluated before they can comment that promoting a DJ’s name and download on iTunes during the man burn is bad behavior?
wasn’t the DJs behavior bad enough that everyone including the dancetronauts realizes that it’s wrong?
And the commenter seemed to see pretty clearly that this was an article defending the dancetronauts… and it is, right?
Some people are spectators, some are participants. Some are givers. Some are takers. Which are you? Tell us something about yourself and your contributions. if there’s nothing, that’s ok – we won’t ridicule you. Don’t be afraid! Radically express yourself.
BurnersXXX so I’m saying that advertising a download during the man burn is wrong. are you saying that I have to tell you what I’ve gifted in order to know that advertising a download on itunes is wrong?
Gift was a major term and theme to that comment, including judgement of gifts. The question is valid to see if the person is just a critic, or is a participant.
the reference to gift seems to be in response to the article’s use of describing the music as the DJ’s gift to burning man.
if the article describes it that way is it really right to ridicule someone for responding in the terms of the article?
How is asking them what their gift is ridiculing them? If anything, I am giving them respect and the benefit of the doubt that they were participants and not just spectators. What did YOU gift us?
BurnersXXX why do you keep asking what someone has gifted in response to a criticsim of the dancetronauts?
If giving someone the benefit of the doubt that they are a participant, why ask the question as a challenge to someone’s comment on the article?
Why do you avoid all my questions, and keep trying to put words in my mouth that I didn’t say? There are more than 200 comments here. I am curious about your contribution though, and if you ever went to Burning Man. Do you know people at Burning Man have radios? Yes, things get co-ordinated there all the time without face to face meetings. Makes logical sense, doesn’t it?
ah, ok for a frame of reference then, I’ve been to burning man 13 years, and been involved in multiple art projects for the city. Some years I do more than others, but I’m sure that applies to many of us.
and of course people have radios, but if that’s a response to my other post saying how hard it is to do a coordinated stop of the fire spinning circle, or to travel through the crowd at burn night to get to the art car in question, would it be ok if I requested that we discuss it under that comment just to keep the threads clear?
Hey, my gifts in previous years were an art car, working on a team that gave away actual tinotype wet plate photos of burners, and I’ve played drums in various camps and bands. Now that that’s out of the way:
I think that advertising a download during the man burn is wrong. What do you feel about that?
I think it’s wrong. So do Dancetronauts. I don’t think it is a Decommodification violation in the same league as having 50 paid Sherpas to wait on your VIP clientele who you’re selling $16,000 Playa hotel rooms to.
OK, do you agree that the Dancetronauts seemed to have been given a warning in 2013, and then kicked it up a notch for 2014? If so, you don’t seem to agree that a warning one year and a MV license denial the very next year is appropriate. What do you think a better response would be? Do you think there should or should not be stipulations on sound cars with regards to decibel levels and awareness of other events taking place on the playa?
I think there should be stipulations with regard to decibel levels. The policy should specifically require art cars to turn the music to a certain level when approaching art installations, unless there is a prior agreement like with the Embrace burn. There should be an agreed max level for the Man burn, and maybe a lower level during the Fire Conclave ceremonies.
I don’t know the details of the 2013 warning, although I would like to.
If they were told to turn it down, and then got no complaints at the burn, then surely they have a right to think they did OK. How else would they know?
There needs to be some sort of threshold of complaints, otherwise one person can ruin any art car they dislike by complaining – as Brian shared with us here. Running this process at Burning Man with decibel meters is better than “he said/she said” 9 months after the event.
The issue seems to have really been Commodification, not volume. The problem is they can’t ban an art car for Principles violations. Hence, a campaign to complain about their noise levels at art installations after the event.
I’m not sure I understand your point here about commodification. I agree one person should not be able to ruin an art car, but from everything I’ve heard about this since right after the 2014 burn, there were multiple complaints, albeit most of them were post-burn. Which, you know, is how it will go. And, again, this is the 2nd year in a row of these kinds of complaints. I don’t see this as any different than a placed camp getting denied placement due to a previous year’s MOOP report. MOOP reports are also done post-burn. I do think that the attention the Dancetronauts issue is getting, that this will become another issue that the community will self-police on, like MOOP. I can’t see another sound car getting away with what Dancetronauts did in 2014 without a group of people confronting the camp on the spot, going forward.
I do agree that the sound car regulations probably need to be more specific, although they’re fairly specific already: http://burningman.org/event/preparation/getting-around/playa-vehicles/2/
1. I don’t know any of you.
2. Worked (not “attended”) at Burning Man for a decade — provided sound, lighting and BBQ for roughly 20 installations over that time. //proudly – all on time, on target, under sometimes-awful conditions! WHEEE!//
3. Favorite moment? When an exceedingly high campmate (hilariously known for peeing in your boots or using a Sharpie on your underwear) decided to learn to play bass on top of the band-bus at 3AM, somewhere midway back into town. Neighbors were annoyed. Hell, I was annoyed. Honestly, the guy’s a dick. And then I realized it was funny. It was art. It was fucking awful yet incredibly bad in a way that you just don’t get to hear in the polished-for-reality-TV world. And when people started coming to complain three or four campmates met them at the door and told them that there was no way that the power was being shut off to the jerk-off flailing away at high volume on top of the bus. You don’t like it? Wrong place for a quiet vacation. He was doing his thing.
4. Banned from every event that ever slaps a BM logo somewhere? When did we elect DMV “The King of Everything”. Fuck that.
5. Seriously. Someone’s solemn peace/love/redemption ceremony got heckled by music? Wrong party. So far as I can tell, BM has never been about respect for norms and standards. And the hippie/yoga/spirituality crowd needs to be challenged because it’s now the norm and standard. The Burn is not some set-in-stone tableau that needs to be respected. It’s an anarchic fuck you that needs to be celebrated and confronted and blown up.
6. I would applaud every DJ that honestly says they are there to further themselves. This event has never been for people who don’t work. It’s work to get there. It’s work to build something. It’s work that you do year round and gladly and honestly. If a DJ works his ass off to BE part of this, let them say that they did it. Let them own their work. There’s no reason for this stupid fucking “we don’t acknowledge your work” bullshit attitude that Burners are so fond of. Sure, let’s pretend it’s magic. Let’s pretend that what you do all year long doesn’t absolutely impact your ability to afford to take the time off and bring art some distance to this event. Folks, it takes work. And those who work should say it proudly. I think that Flaming Lotus Girls should absolutely point out that they WORK all year long and that they tour their work and that they do it for love but some of that love can come in forms that pay their rent the rest of the year and pay for food and cars and insurance and nights out. ADVERTISE that shit. Anything less is dishonest.
7. The increasing spiritualization/intellectualization of Burning Man is bullshit. Take your bullshit philosophy and go the fuck home already. There’s a high wind warning and there’s gonna be rain and snow on the desert floor. Pack your tents and GO. We don’t want you here anyway. That said, I’m not going to burst into your tent like the BLM rent-a-cops to tell you how to fuck or criticize your technique. But this isn’t the quiet Thai vacation you packaged online. It’s supposed to be challenging. It’s built to be dangerous AT ANY SPEED.
I think that’s it. Rant over.
But you’ve never spent months planning the ceremony of placing sacred rocks in a circle. The endless meetings and trips out to wherever the fuck to find just the right kind of rocks. Instead of just chilling and enjoying my life, I was out there hiking around to get these fucking rocks for my girlfriend or she would throw a crying fit and tell me how I ‘don’t get it’. So I did all of that and FINALLY once we had the sacred fucking circle all set up – just before the ceremony where everyone cuts their hands and bleeds onto the rocks, that’s when Dancetronauts shows up!
You just can’t imagine the rage. Not from me, but the sheer terror, hatred and anger in rock people’s eyes… just when I thought it was all over and I could freely contemplate dumping my GF before Thanksgiving and enjoy the rest of Burning Man… now this fucking music ruined their expectations and hopes that some deity wold come in that sacred fucking moment.
The only good thing that came out of this was that they were all so angry, they didn’t notice that I slipped away and met some 18 year old runaway from Kid’s Camp. Best sex I ever had.
If you can afford a sound system, DJ equipment and the time to DJ, you can afford a sound level meter. One of the reasons that sound is so loud at events is that the sound operators have hearing loss. The meter is objective.
Sure : but what are the acceptable levels at Burning Man?
I believe the published levels are a good start. 90dBA at 20′ in the city and for MV sound vehicles in most places. Over time I would like to see it reduced in inside of the city, excepting the Esplanade, 2 & 10. The Wattage level is legacy, measured sound levels superceed it.
Yes, take SPLs where things are judged aceptable this year, then set a standard for off-axis readings at 20′, 30′ or 40′ – does not make much difference as long as they are consistent. Short of an actual anechoic chamber, SPL readings on the playa tend to be valid and reproducible, as long as you are off-axis, far more than just about anywhere else.
Just say that you cannot exceed the DPW/DMV standard unless the sound is only facing the open desert. If somone moves into your sound field, then YOU have to move.
Empower the Rangers/DMV/DPW to pull the plug on anyone exceeding the SPL, or they are banned for the next year. (Actually, just don’t give them tkts. It is a private invitation-only event anyway. “Banning,” per se, is just a lack of coordination in the ticketing process.)
They should specify this SPL standard. Sound travel changes based on atmospheric conditions, the same volume one day can be too much the next. But at least measuring it provides some form of objectivity and consistent rules for everyone.
90db is stricter than real life city cops. They only bust you if your over 100db at 100ft away.
“City” sound ordinances are not valid for a playa application. Fred, time for you to learn the first thing about acoustics. Come back when you do.
I don’t know if banning their vehicle is the right answer, but “too loud” wasn’t the problem. Last year I noticed that they were extremely inconsiderate of and rude to other participants. During the Alien Siege Machine performance burn they were the only vehicle loudly blasting their own soundtrack at the burn and promoting their scheduled events.
I’m fine with them being loud, but showing up to someone else’s performance and trying to drown it out is completely inappropriate.
You’ve written an extremely long article here, but I can’t help but feel that the quoted apologies are insincere “we’re sorry if people were offended”. The responses suggest that this was an isolated event at the Man Burn, but it appears to have been a systemic problem throughout the event.
I don’t know what process the DMV went through to decide on a one-year suspension, but I would be surprised if they were not given the opportunity to truly take ownership for the problems. I hope they return in 2016 in a way that is more respectful of other participants and performers.
In general, I’m not in favor of banning anyone unless there is a willful refusal to respect other people’s boundaries. I seriously doubt it was a gut reaction, zero tolerance situation on the part of BMorg, but that said I do hope the Dancetronauts can work it out and come back either this year or future years.
Here’s the thing, as a DJ who has played on the playa for almost fifteen years, I want to play my music for people who want to hear it. The immediate circle around the burn is a captive audience. Those people came early, got a seat for the performance, and have no control over who shows up to disrupt that experience. No, I don’t want the man burn to be silent like the temple burn, but I also don’t want to show up and overpower someone’s experience if they don’t happen to dig my groove. It’s a volume and promotion issue.
This way too long and repetitive rant seems to vacillate from contrition to indignation, which perhaps gives clues as to how the ban happened. I do truly hope it can be worked out, but they caused some people to have a bad time. Calling them the fun police because they tried to set a personal boundary goes beyond missing the point. Blasting your music at the burn is non-consensual.
Dancetronauts are contrite. I am indignant.
Are you saying no art cars should play music when the Man burns?
Just keep in mind that the logarithmic perception of sound and it’s measurement means that 46 dB is twice as loud as 40 dB, and 100 dB is twice as loud as 94 dB.
Anything more than 90 dB is not good for your ears. That’s why I carry serious ear plugs, which will usually attenuate sound by 28 to 38 dB.
To get my attention, the goal should be to do as much with as little as possible, and overwhelming RMS watts of power only shows that you don’t really have anything creative to offer; it only shows you have money to buy an amp, a genset, and to refuel the genset.
I agree Nomad. I was married to a blues musician for 24 years–one of his favorite sayings was “Loud is not better, it’s just loud.” But this is one of those issues that will never be resolved–remember your freshman year in college where some folks in your dorm thought blasting everyone out was the coolest thing EVAR? As did 4 other people on the same floor…some folks never do get past that stage. Same as it ever was.
Just to be accurate, 3dB is about where most people will say they notice an increase/decrease, 6dB is where most people notice a notable increase in volume and a 10dB increase is generally considered to be perceived as twice as loud.
And just how the fraak is that “accurate?” A JND (Just Noticable Difference) is around 1 dB but less than 2 dB. And twice the sound pressure level (SPL) amplitude is 6 dB. It’s 6 dB. Really, it is. It’s 6 dB. People hear that as twice as loud, twice the amplitude.
Go fish, Lifelover. Stick to what you know.
Well I actually do know a little bit about it and it appears to be accurate as described by acousticians and auditory studies. Certainly some people can percieve a 1dB increase or decrease, but not all. You are right in that a 6dB increase results in a doubling of amplitude, but amplitude and SPL is not the same as “loudness”.
This is a good article on the complexities if you’d like to read more. http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm
Sorry. Want to try again? That is a web page with no references or footnotes. It has less substantiation than any random blog, because it has none. There is not even an identified author that I could find.
All I can tell you is that I have spent hours in anechoic chambers, psychoacoustic experiments (as both subject and experimenter), and have met or worked professionally with many of the authors you find if you search for “acoustics” on Amazon. I have made measurements that show much of the information on that page is wrong. Most all of the fundamental aspects you need to know in the practical application of acoustics are not entertained on that page.
Anyone who wants to use that as their basis for understanding of sound, acoustics and psychoacoustics has defined how robust their inquisitive skills are.
Sent from my mobile device
I am a Dancetronaut, Sgt Pepper, and have worked security for the past six years. I can tell you, first hand, any onsite complaints, they are heard and acted on immediately. We have been very respectful and worked with many other art cars to ensure a good time by all. I agree whole heartily with Phil, the members of this group come from diverse backgrounds; myself, I hold a PhD in Engineering and act as the EMT (certified life saver) for the group. We hold a special bond and with the bond, a respect to make it right with all. The security team works closely with LEO’s and other agencies to ensure a safe and respectful venue. Safety issues, we address on the spot by politeness and courtesy. I can only hope this gets resolved. To ban us over a few incidents of which we have totally acknowledge and implemented corrective actions, I believe goes against the 10 principles of Burning Man. Respectfully, Sgt. Pepper
As I commented separately, I was at the Alien Siege Machine burn and Dancetronauts was being completely inappropriate, overpowering the performance and promoting other events. I didn’t complain to anyone because, hey, Burning Man has lots of assholes, but it was one of the more notable instances of a group being inconsiderate I’ve seen over the past ten years.
In the apologies quoted above, complaints about the Alien Siege Machine burn are dismissed as “bloggers piling on”. This says to me that the problem from last year hasn’t been taken seriously or addressed in your camp.
Do you guys acknowledge that you were doing this at many other participants’ events, and not just at the Man Burn? Or are we all just a bunch of bloggers piling on?
Regrettably, I only work security. I do not get involve with the day to day activities of the operations or how the music is played. My only participation is at BM and a few local events here in LA and SD, and those local events were years ago. But again, when I worked security, when we got complaints, they were acted on in a timely manner. I wish I could provide more insight, but I can only go by my experience – on the front line as to speak. Hopefully, this is a wake up call for all and not just our group.
Everyone seems to think that the LA fire spinners would have to fight the crowd and try to ask the DJ to turn down. Ridiculous. Firstly, the fire spinners may not leave Conclave until cleared by Khaki. Secondly, at 6 o’clock it would be easy to get the nearest Ranger to radio their Conclave section Leader, who would radio Ranger HQ at 6’oclock to send over a Ranger to turn down the sound system. It would take a few minutes and the fire spinners wouldnt even have to stop if their Fire Safety officer did the reporting. Simple.
True for the fire spinners. But what about the rest of the BMOrg staff who supposedly were in the “problem zone”? None of them had radios? You say Ranger HQ is at 6 o’clock, isn’t that where Dancetronauts were on Burn night? How come they didn’t hear any problems?
You just spent all this time to continually say the same thing over and over again and it is clear you are biased and part of The Dancetronauts. I know many people in this group and have had one-on-one conversations, experiences, and spent time with this group inside and outside the Burn. They epitomize what is WRONG with Burning Man. They are loud, gaudy, treat women and outsiders like crap and the whole installation is geared toward getting the MEN/DJ’s of the group laid. I am glad that BMORG is sending a message that allowing shameless self promotion will not be tolerated. Too many camp and art cars have been “promoting” their line-ups and using the Burn to launch a private brand so they can profit from their ideas and work in the default world. In the past, this sometimes happened as a natural progression of idea( Do Lab, Bassnectar, Mutaytor). Now it seems that people, like The Dancetronauts, launch ideas at Burning Man in order to promote it and then bring it to the default world and turn a profit. It is less a gift and more a selfish act motivated by money/greed. I look forward to seeing a different art car this year in place of The Dancetronauts.
You mean like Google? Shall we ban Google too, for using Burning Man to promote themselves ?
And no, I am not part of Dancetronauts in any way.
You should vote with your feet. Don’t expect others to change based on what you want, just try to be as clear as possible with the information, and then keep away from anyone who is not dong what you think is the right thing. That goes for these guys, and Google too. Otherwise, like most PR people observe, all press coverage is good.
One good thing about Transformus is that all the RV people have their own area, so they can enjoy their own company, and the rest of us and decide if we want to visit RV-land.
Sound, of course, is a problem. The good news is that the playa is largely like an anechoic chamber, meaning that there is no reverberant field. All the sound you hear is a direct path, which means that, if you know acoustics, it can be managed. Make the sounds camps point their speakers towards the open desert, and limit their power at the lower omnidirectional frequencies. People that want to kill the cilia in their cochleas can just stand in the direct field.
That the BOrg does not do this is based on a lack of will or knowledge. So, you must go elsewhere for your BM experience, but sound is the least of those reasons.
I get your point Peeps. Every third or fourth male DJ (maybe every other one) at the big sound camps, at the burn is just a douche bag out to get laid and promote his DJ career. That being said, this is not to detract from their mad DJ skills.
If people are showing up to dance and enjoy the music and other people there then perhaps the benefit outweighs the cost. What is the cost? These guys act like douche bags; they don’t let men they don’t know on their art car: they don’t let women they don’t think are pretty on their art car….they take lots of selfies…feathers….?
Really, who cares? If a woman wants to get down with one of these douche bags that’s her choice if she’s over 18 and not roofied. Everybody is where ever they are in their journey of life here and on the playa. I came to dance and meet good people and can avoid the “not good people” easily. It’s a city. Go somewhere else if you don’t like the music, the men, the DJ’s, the women, etc.
Overall I think the Dancetronauts should stay because the positive things they bring outweigh the bad they are “accused” of bringing. I’ve never tried to get on their art car so I don’t know. Yeah, maybe they only have go-go girls and no hot guys who aren’t on their team but really….really? Like I’m going to give a care about that? It’s Burning Man. There are beautiful people every where I look and go, and yes, a douche bag or two here and there, just like real life. But sometimes even they have their gifts to bring and the Dancetronauts have been bringing gifts and music so yeah. Let’s give ’em a break.
>Every third or fourth male DJ (maybe every other one) at the big sound camps, at the burn is just a douche bag out to get laid and promote his DJ career.
Are you implying the female DJs actually have talent, and aren’t just attention whores?
Actually I’m only implying that females don’t really need DJ skills to get laid. ; )
As somebody who was present at the Alien Siege Machine burn, I can tell you that the Dancetronauts were there, did talk and self promote during the staged performance, and did say they were off to the temple next. These guys are assholes, pure and simple. I’m glad they got banned, their attitude and dismissiveness about complaints others had is all I need to know about how the discussion with the DMV committee went.
So have they talked at all about what happened at alien siege machine? it sounds like a lot of people are talking about it.
Get the spelling right… DISTRIKT
Burning Man has gotten too loud lately. I can barely hear myself trying to spike a woman’s drink. I go on vacation to relax and have a little peace and quiet, then I get to BM and everyone is like, “Woo hoo!” How am I supposed to even take a nap out there when the next camp is playing music and then they attack me while I’m trying to cut their power cables?
I suport this effort by BMorg to keep the playa nice and quiet. I’m glad they thought of the children, finally. Children are our future.
Yes, they should think of the children, and keep out everyone who is underage for drinking.
Oh, and our future is computers, not children. Try to pay attention.